Bidding with your eyes closed?

Geo99 · 09-10-2019, 01:58 AM

That's the only way I can see how this gun sold for $5700!

It has a mismatched toggle train, and the toggle looks like it might be refinished.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...tol-dated-1913

Maybe it's time to start selling my collection, instead of buying.

- Geo

Zorba · 09-10-2019, 06:20 AM

"Estimate Price: $6,500 - $9,000" - Why?

Goddess knows I'm no expert, but it looks like a $1,500 gun to me. Nothing particularly rare about it?

Vlim · 09-10-2019, 07:23 AM

I guess someone has a DWM toggle #22 and enough cash...

gunbugs · 09-10-2019, 08:31 AM

Oh dear. There's a sucker born every minute.

DavidJayUden · 09-10-2019, 08:33 AM

Sale price PLUS 18.5% buyers fee plus 1% live bidding fee...
dju

DonVoigt · 09-10-2019, 09:39 AM

Well,
it says right in the title it is "exceptional" = new word to described mismatched.

Karl · 09-10-2019, 12:46 PM

It looks like whoever wrote the description also had eyes closed. In addition to the overlooked, mismatched and re-blued toggle train, the hold open (pin in the white and proofed) is a later retrofit. This is not a "very late 1913 dated" example.

KFS

Doubs · 09-10-2019, 02:29 PM

There is a local auction that has become fairly big in gun auctions. All items are listed on Proxi-Bid and the pictures are generally very good.

I keep tabs on what is selling BUT I ALWAYS look at the items in person before I bid. The one thing they don't mention is bore condition and that's important to me. At times the pictures don't show everything either.

There are times when I'm amazed at the bids on line and the buyer hasn't actually seen the item.

Zorba · 09-11-2019, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubs

The one thing they don't mention is bore condition and that's important to me.

Yea, you think? Its amazing to me how often I see a gun for sale online and the bore condition isn't mentioned at all! As far as I'm concerned, bore condition trumps EVERYTHING.

As far as the subject auction goes, in my opinion its just an illustration that there are two kinds of idiots involved with online auctions. Idiot sellers and idiot buyers. They feed off of each other. I see it on eBay all the time!

Ron Wood · 09-11-2019, 12:52 PM

I have been collecting for more than 60 years and I seldom worry about bore condition, unless it is a really minty gun with a sewer pipe bore...that puts me off a bit. I have bought several guns without looking down the bore, and I don't get all upset if the firing pin or grips do not match. Guess I am too mellow for my own good, but rarity and overall condition rings my chimes. But, I do not purchase a refinished gun unless it is so rare I most likely will never see another one. And if refinished it has to be close to a good restoration not a buff and blue bubba job...I couldn't live with that.

Edward Tinker · 09-11-2019, 04:44 PM

I would agree with Ron - many of these fine looking guns have some icky bores - its a consideration, but not a game changer to me

--------------
I wondered if the top picture was a wrong picture, but it 'appears to be correct? And so, toggle in-correct - that is hard for me to believe that even a supposed 98% would sell for a 1/4 of that amount with a mismatched toggle.

Zorba · 09-11-2019, 11:11 PM

Not here - I'd pass on a mint gun with a sewer pipe bore, but that's me. YMMV and all that.

Ron Wood · 09-12-2019, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorba

Not here - I'd pass on a mint gun with a sewer pipe bore, but that's me. YMMV and all that.

That's what I said.
Ron

lew1 · 09-30-2019, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I have been collecting for more than 60 years and I seldom worry about bore condition, unless it is a really minty gun with a sewer pipe bore...that puts me off a bit. I have bought several guns without looking down the bore, and I don't get all upset if the firing pin or grips do not match. Guess I am too mellow for my own good, but rarity and overall condition rings my chimes. But, I do not purchase a refinished gun unless it is so rare I most likely will never see another one. And if refinished it has to be close to a good restoration not a buff and blue bubba job...I couldn't live with that.

Back in the late 90s I purchased a refinished Hi Power. Sidney Aberman had it refinished - very good work. I acquired it from a collector who had acquired it from his estate.

Manufactured around 1929. If another one should show up, then I made a bad purchase.

Olle · 09-30-2019, 02:55 PM

Where are all these blind bidders when I need them...

Doubs · 09-30-2019, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lew1

Back in the late 90s I purchased a refinished Hi Power. Sidney Aberman had it refinished - very good work. I acquired it from a collector who had acquired it from his estate.

Manufactured around 1929. If another one should show up, then I made a bad purchase.

A Hi-Power made around 1929? Somehow I don't think another one will show up.

09-10-2019, 01:58 AM	#1
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 396 Thanks: 100 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Bidding with your eyes closed? That's the only way I can see how this gun sold for $5700! It has a mismatched toggle train, and the toggle looks like it might be refinished. https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...tol-dated-1913 Maybe it's time to start selling my collection, instead of buying. - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers Last edited by Geo99; 09-10-2019 at 03:06 AM.

09-10-2019, 09:39 AM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Well, it says right in the title it is "exceptional" = new word to described mismatched. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-11-2019, 12:52 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I have been collecting for more than 60 years and I seldom worry about bore condition, unless it is a really minty gun with a sewer pipe bore...that puts me off a bit. I have bought several guns without looking down the bore, and I don't get all upset if the firing pin or grips do not match. Guess I am too mellow for my own good, but rarity and overall condition rings my chimes. But, I do not purchase a refinished gun unless it is so rare I most likely will never see another one. And if refinished it has to be close to a good restoration not a buff and blue bubba job...I couldn't live with that. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-30-2019, 02:55 PM	#15
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Where are all these blind bidders when I need them... __________________ Deer Hollow Enterprises, LLC Gun repair and restoration

09-10-2019, 06:20 AM	#2
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 951 Thanks: 776 Thanked 526 Times in 289 Posts	"Estimate Price: $6,500 - $9,000" - Why? Goddess knows I'm no expert, but it looks like a $1,500 gun to me. Nothing particularly rare about it?

09-10-2019, 07:23 AM	#3
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	I guess someone has a DWM toggle #22 and enough cash...

09-10-2019, 08:31 AM	#4
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 635 Thanks: 335 Thanked 1,139 Times in 377 Posts	Oh dear. There's a sucker born every minute.

09-10-2019, 08:33 AM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Sale price PLUS 18.5% buyers fee plus 1% live bidding fee... dju

09-10-2019, 12:46 PM	#7
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 239 Times in 111 Posts	It looks like whoever wrote the description also had eyes closed. In addition to the overlooked, mismatched and re-blued toggle train, the hold open (pin in the white and proofed) is a later retrofit. This is not a "very late 1913 dated" example. KFS

09-10-2019, 02:29 PM	#8
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	There is a local auction that has become fairly big in gun auctions. All items are listed on Proxi-Bid and the pictures are generally very good. I keep tabs on what is selling BUT I ALWAYS look at the items in person before I bid. The one thing they don't mention is bore condition and that's important to me. At times the pictures don't show everything either. There are times when I'm amazed at the bids on line and the buyer hasn't actually seen the item.

09-11-2019, 04:44 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I would agree with Ron - many of these fine looking guns have some icky bores - its a consideration, but not a game changer to me -------------- I wondered if the top picture was a wrong picture, but it 'appears to be correct? And so, toggle in-correct - that is hard for me to believe that even a supposed 98% would sell for a 1/4 of that amount with a mismatched toggle.

09-11-2019, 11:11 PM	#12
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 951 Thanks: 776 Thanked 526 Times in 289 Posts	Not here - I'd pass on a mint gun with a sewer pipe bore, but that's me. YMMV and all that.