Were ERMA type .22 conversions done for the Swiss parabellums??

biffj · 07-30-2009, 11:17 PM

I've seen some of the insert barrels in 4mm and a couple .22 types of similar sort but were there ever conversions of the ERMA type with a complete toggle, barrel and mag for semi-auto operation, made for the Swiss 06,06 Bern and 06/29 types?

Thanks
Biff J

Vlim · 07-31-2009, 07:53 AM

Hi Biff,

The only real difference is the barrel length and the Erma sets were available with a single barrel length. In the 1970s Mauser also experimented with Erma subcalibre sets for the Mauser Parabellum, which in turn was based on the 1906/1929 models.

The Erma barrel had a standard length of 186mm and the only part that needed to be changed was the adaptor sleeve between the gun barrel and the insert. It wouldn't have been a problem to convert a standard set to any given barrel length under 186mm.

The barrels were available for both the .30 luger and the 9mm versions of the Parabellum.

biffj · 07-31-2009, 12:09 PM

So it sounds as though neither ERMA nor any other makers made units specifically intended for the Swiss guns (or the early 1900 types)? I'm thinking primarily pre or immediatly post war so the mauser parabellums don't really fit here. I have owned a number of the conversions and have one of the long box units right now but they were all for 9mm barrels and do not fit the .30's. There is a sleeve on most of these conversion barrels to allow its use in any of the standard length barrels so barrel length is not a problem. I guess the biggest issue is the bore diameter. I think the 1900's would have required a different insert barrel in any case due to the slightly different location of the bolt face in relation to the main toggle link pin.
I suppose the reasoning behind the post is to try and figure out if there is any reason I can't make a new insert barrel to fit my Swiss Lugers and expect them to work properly. The magazine hangs up a little in my 06 Bern but works fine in the 06/29. The toggle fits both guns fine and works properly. I don't mind doing the work to make the barrel but I hate to waste the blank if the system won't work.....

Thanks
Biff

Vlim · 07-31-2009, 12:39 PM

Biff,

The Mauser Parabellum is based on the Swiss 06/29 design. If an Erma set fits a Mauser Parabellum it will fit an 06/29. That was the logic behind my reasoning.

The 1900s were pretty much obsolete guns in the 1930s already, so I can understand why Erma didn't bother making one specifically for the 1900 model. According to the original 1930s manual, the 'Model 30' insert set was available for both 9mm and .30 luger. It doesn't say whether it was a 'one size fits all' design, but they don't mention separate prices and stock numbers for the sets, so my guess is that the conversion kit should work in both sets.

biffj · 08-03-2009, 02:50 AM

OK,
I got the barrel done today and made the muzzle nut with a 1/2-28 thread so that it will handle the US Standard sized .22 cal suppressor. I test fired and it works well with feeding and ejection pretty positive. The mag is a bit annoying as it holds only 5 rounds but its better than single feeding. I didn't get to shoot this eve without the suppressor due to the late hour I completed the parts. I'll try that tomorrow and see if I can get it printed on paper as well.
Here are a couple pics of the 06/29 with the conversion installed and also with the suppressor.

Biff J

biffj · 08-03-2009, 09:12 PM

I test fired today without the suppressor and the setup works great and seems to be pretty accurate. It does shoot a bit high but that can be dealt with as the groups are pretty tight. I do like shooting it suppressed though as its much easier on the ears.....

Biff

Vlim · 08-04-2009, 10:03 AM

Nice job!!

John Sabato · 08-04-2009, 10:22 AM

Neat Setup Biffj! Truely a one of a kind shooter!

07-30-2009, 11:17 PM	#1
biffj User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Were ERMA type .22 conversions done for the Swiss parabellums?? I've seen some of the insert barrels in 4mm and a couple .22 types of similar sort but were there ever conversions of the ERMA type with a complete toggle, barrel and mag for semi-auto operation, made for the Swiss 06,06 Bern and 06/29 types? Thanks Biff J

08-04-2009, 10:22 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Neat Setup Biffj! Truely a one of a kind shooter! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-31-2009, 07:53 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,943 Times in 1,196 Posts	Hi Biff, The only real difference is the barrel length and the Erma sets were available with a single barrel length. In the 1970s Mauser also experimented with Erma subcalibre sets for the Mauser Parabellum, which in turn was based on the 1906/1929 models. The Erma barrel had a standard length of 186mm and the only part that needed to be changed was the adaptor sleeve between the gun barrel and the insert. It wouldn't have been a problem to convert a standard set to any given barrel length under 186mm. The barrels were available for both the .30 luger and the 9mm versions of the Parabellum.

07-31-2009, 12:09 PM	#3
biffj User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So it sounds as though neither ERMA nor any other makers made units specifically intended for the Swiss guns (or the early 1900 types)? I'm thinking primarily pre or immediatly post war so the mauser parabellums don't really fit here. I have owned a number of the conversions and have one of the long box units right now but they were all for 9mm barrels and do not fit the .30's. There is a sleeve on most of these conversion barrels to allow its use in any of the standard length barrels so barrel length is not a problem. I guess the biggest issue is the bore diameter. I think the 1900's would have required a different insert barrel in any case due to the slightly different location of the bolt face in relation to the main toggle link pin. I suppose the reasoning behind the post is to try and figure out if there is any reason I can't make a new insert barrel to fit my Swiss Lugers and expect them to work properly. The magazine hangs up a little in my 06 Bern but works fine in the 06/29. The toggle fits both guns fine and works properly. I don't mind doing the work to make the barrel but I hate to waste the blank if the system won't work..... Thanks Biff

07-31-2009, 12:39 PM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,943 Times in 1,196 Posts	Biff, The Mauser Parabellum is based on the Swiss 06/29 design. If an Erma set fits a Mauser Parabellum it will fit an 06/29. That was the logic behind my reasoning. The 1900s were pretty much obsolete guns in the 1930s already, so I can understand why Erma didn't bother making one specifically for the 1900 model. According to the original 1930s manual, the 'Model 30' insert set was available for both 9mm and .30 luger. It doesn't say whether it was a 'one size fits all' design, but they don't mention separate prices and stock numbers for the sets, so my guess is that the conversion kit should work in both sets.

08-03-2009, 02:50 AM	#5
biffj User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	OK, I got the barrel done today and made the muzzle nut with a 1/2-28 thread so that it will handle the US Standard sized .22 cal suppressor. I test fired and it works well with feeding and ejection pretty positive. The mag is a bit annoying as it holds only 5 rounds but its better than single feeding. I didn't get to shoot this eve without the suppressor due to the late hour I completed the parts. I'll try that tomorrow and see if I can get it printed on paper as well. Here are a couple pics of the 06/29 with the conversion installed and also with the suppressor. Biff J

08-03-2009, 09:12 PM	#6
biffj User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Indiana Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I test fired today without the suppressor and the setup works great and seems to be pretty accurate. It does shoot a bit high but that can be dealt with as the groups are pretty tight. I do like shooting it suppressed though as its much easier on the ears..... Biff

08-04-2009, 10:03 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,943 Times in 1,196 Posts	Nice job!!