Great Luger Pricing In Switzerland...

Pete Ebbink · 01-13-2003, 04:45 PM

Here's a link for a very nice Swiss luger rig complete for $ 1,300.00 in Switzerland...

http://www.swissrifles.com/~swissdagger/m0624.html

Time to think about importing, again, I guess...

Regards.

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Navy · 01-14-2003, 06:46 AM

All,

As one who has played the importing game, let me assure you there are substantial delays, costs and risks involved. The greatest risk is not having recourse if the piece is not as advertised and being out the cash that you paid for the now import marked piece.

Caveat Emptor!

Tom A.

John Sabato · 01-14-2003, 07:54 AM

Perhaps this might be an option if one travels overseas extensively and can see what they are buying before shipment and import?

Big Norm · 01-14-2003, 02:09 PM

This particular gun may be altered. I took a look at the rear sight and saw that it does not have the distictive 'V' but rather a 'U'. A closer look might reveal other alterations. Maybe this is why the price is so low.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 01-14-2003, 02:26 PM

I may be telling you more than I know Norm (happens often with me

), but I think that I read somewhere that some later model Swiss lugers had u-shaped rear sight notches... but I am sure that the our knowledgeable Swiss collectors or at the very least, those with the Swiss Luger reference books on their gun book shelves, will jump right in here and tell us for sure...

Please do!

Ron Wood · 01-14-2003, 02:52 PM

The Luger shown was manufactured with a v-notch and later modified to the u-notch. The gun is a very early '06 Bern, being the 25th off the line! The manufacture of the Luger by the Swiss started off with serial number 15216, picking up the serial numbering consecutive to where the DWM production ceased. The price does seem very low. Even though there is good blue coverage, it looks very "thin" over most of the Luger and the Swiss like them looking new. Also, the addition of the inset in the right grip does nothing for the value. Even with all that, with a holster and two magazines $1300 seems like a steal.

swissdagger · 01-14-2003, 06:06 PM

I`m new on this board and I`m the owner from this M06/24. You call me a thief Mr.Wood? Thank you!
And you Mr. Ebbink , have you ever asked me before you published my pictures and my emails?
I think not.

Edward Tinker · 01-14-2003, 06:13 PM

Swissdagger, this is a problem with differences in language. "Steal" in American english jargon means a "very good deal".

Mr. Ebbink is usually very careful, and generally it is felt that posting a link is not stealing photos. Since you posted pictures and are trying to sell an item on this webpage, Pete simply showed all of us the link on the swissrifles forum.

Most of the people here thought the Luger was a very nice and sweet one.

Ron Wood · 01-14-2003, 07:00 PM

swissdagger
I apologize sincerely for the disparity in our languages that appeared as an insult to you. Actually I was being very complementary and intended to give the impression that this is a very fine and desirable Luger and very likely priced well below what it is worth.
As Mr. Tinker pointed out, Mr. Ebbink did not post your pictures, he only posted the link to the location where you had already provided the pictures, which does not require permission from anyone.
You have a very good Luger. I hope that you understand now that no offense was intended and no personal confidence was broken.

Pete Ebbink · 01-14-2003, 08:59 PM

Hello Stefan,

I, too , apologize if you took offense. I was only trying to let members on our Luger Forum know that this beautiful rig was for sale. I also wanted to let folks know about the apparent pricing differences between our two countries...

It is nice that members of the Luger Forum and the Swiss weapons site can enjoy both. It is also great that we have new members here that actually live in Europe and Switzerland. We American's tend to forget that collectors are all around the World...and such collector's have different opinions and interests in their pistols. compared to American tastes...

I differ with Ron Wood, in that I think the brass emblem inserted into the left grip panel adds beauty to your luger. But this is only my opinion, and I am a beginner in these things.

Finally the term "he got that luger for a steal" has the subtle meaning here in the USA that "a buyer was very wise in getting such a great pistol as such a great, low price"...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

rufe-snow · 01-15-2003, 01:20 AM

The very early production Swiss ( 14 pistol produced in Bern?) that Mel Torme didn't buy from me, had a very different configuration on the rear sight. The "Notch" was perfectly square on the bottom. Almost as it was machined on a Bridgeport Mill with a endmill.
Very precise high grade workmanship.
This one that is for sale in Switzerland has a altogether different configuration rear sight
"Notch" it looks like some of my kitchen table handywork after I had a couple of beers.

"Please excuse the following as it's off topic, and long.
I bought a Swiss made Bern Luger in the mid 70's when the collecting bug had bitten me really hard. Payed way to much for it, $2,000. That was a lot of money to me in 70's but I had to have it!
The only way you could describe it, was being brand new. As I had collected military handguns for many years the idea of finding a 60 year old military issue pistol in that condition was unbeliveable!
The Luger was from the first production run at Bern. The serial number placed it in the first 30 Lugers made there in 1919. (15,216 - 15,246)
The only thing that disappointed me was that the rear sight had a "square notch" rather then the correct "v notch". I was assured by some RKI's that this wasn't unknown. Some of the Swiss Officers who bought their own pistols had this "professionally" done to improve the sight picture.
Fast forward (6) years, I had decided to sell my collection. Most of the stuff went pretty quick but I was having trouble selling the Bern Luger. A co-worker knew Mel Torme he suggested I call him "as he was interested in getting back into Lugers".
When I called Torme he invited me up to his home in the Hollywood hills.
This guy had a ego that was unbelievable, he was his own favorite subject! I was there a better part of an hour, most of it was taken up with his ex wives and how he had to sell his guns to pay for the divorce, yada! yada! yada!. He did show me some albums with fabulous gun pictures, both Lugers and Colt SAA's. Before I left he offered me $1800, which I turned down. The next time I saw my co-worker, he told me Torme had called him and he was "really pissed".
I would up selling the Bern about 6 months later to a local gun show hustler who gave me $1900 + for it. This guy had a reputation for peddling guns south of the border.
I often wondered if the Bern wound up down there?
I like to ask If any of the members have or know of a early production Bern Luger with a variant rear sight? Hope the Bern is still around and not in some coke baron's collection."

Pete Ebbink · 01-15-2003, 03:40 PM

Hello Richard,

Here is some information from Vittorio Bobba's swiss luger book, from pages 93-94 and 193.

This is in regards to the "U" shaped rear sight notch...

By the time the model 19006/29 W+F Bern came out, the U notch was the standard for that entire model run.

Regards.

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Big Norm · 01-16-2003, 03:24 AM

Swissdagger,
no offence was intended by the use of American slang. I commented on your Luger only because, in America, your Luger was a bargain at the price stated. When a nice looking gun, such as yours, comes up for sale at an unusual price, then I have a tendency to look particularly hard at the Luger to see if there is anything that I missed in my first viewing.
It is hard to avoid slang. For instance, a neighbor lady once met another neighbor who happened to be from the UK. The American lady looked at the UK ladys baby and said the it looked like a cute little "bugger". The UK lady was quite offended and walked away. The term "bugger" means something entirely different in America than it does in the UK.
Another example is when a German lady, who I often date, was in a bad mood and was complaining a lot. To lighten up the atmosphere, I said "bitch! bitch! bitch!". She thought that I was calling her that name when what I was really saying "complain! complain! complain!". A common slang term in America. I had to do some fast explaining or she would have thrown me out of the house.
Nothing personal was meant by any of the above forum posts. I am sorry that you misunderstood the intent of members of this forum, including me. I hope that you understand and return here for more discussion.
Big Norm

rufe-snow · 01-16-2003, 08:38 PM

ME TO! Didn't mean to offend you. I was just being flippant, thought I would add a little levity to the thread.
Your outfit would sell in a New York second on this side of the pond.
Don't mind us, we're just a bunch of jealous old goats, scheming on how we can our hands on your Luger without the Federallies getting wind of it.

minigun · 01-17-2003, 02:19 PM

Okay, I'm not the greatest with computers so please bear with me. When clicking to this site, I get some kind of learning channel crap.

Pete Ebbink · 01-17-2003, 05:39 PM

Hello Kelly,

If you just "click" on the hot link that I set up in my first post that started this thread, it should take you to that Swiss luger rig we all were chatting about...

I have re-created it here, as well :

http://www.swissrifles.com/~swissdagger/m0624.html

Noticed the previous price of $ 1300.00 USD is now replaced with a "Hold" message on the ad. Maybe there is a buy in progress...(?)

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

swissdagger · 01-19-2003, 05:15 PM

Both Lugers on my website are sold. Goes to Texas.
More Lugers are available in two weeks.
Thanks
Stefan

Pete Ebbink · 01-22-2003, 06:27 PM

Stefan,

Good to see you were able to sell your lugers !

And we are glad you came back to the Luger Forum !!!

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

p.s. I suspect that buyer in Texas might be someone we know from El Paso...? Ron Wood, if that is you, great buys !

Pete...

Ron Wood · 01-22-2003, 07:03 PM

Nope, not me. Already had examples. Someone else got lucky.

John Sabato · 01-23-2003, 06:33 AM

Could it be that Hugh Clark fella? or maybe Leon?

01-13-2003, 04:45 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Great Luger Pricing In Switzerland... Here's a link for a very nice Swiss luger rig complete for $ 1,300.00 in Switzerland... http://www.swissrifles.com/~swissdagger/m0624.html Time to think about importing, again, I guess... Regards. Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-14-2003, 07:54 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Perhaps this might be an option if one travels overseas extensively and can see what they are buying before shipment and import? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-14-2003, 02:26 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I may be telling you more than I know Norm (happens often with me ), but I think that I read somewhere that some later model Swiss lugers had u-shaped rear sight notches... but I am sure that the our knowledgeable Swiss collectors or at the very least, those with the Swiss Luger reference books on their gun book shelves, will jump right in here and tell us for sure... Please do! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-14-2003, 02:52 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The Luger shown was manufactured with a v-notch and later modified to the u-notch. The gun is a very early '06 Bern, being the 25th off the line! The manufacture of the Luger by the Swiss started off with serial number 15216, picking up the serial numbering consecutive to where the DWM production ceased. The price does seem very low. Even though there is good blue coverage, it looks very "thin" over most of the Luger and the Swiss like them looking new. Also, the addition of the inset in the right grip does nothing for the value. Even with all that, with a holster and two magazines $1300 seems like a steal. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-14-2003, 06:13 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Swissdagger, this is a problem with differences in language. "Steal" in American english jargon means a "very good deal". Mr. Ebbink is usually very careful, and generally it is felt that posting a link is not stealing photos. Since you posted pictures and are trying to sell an item on this webpage, Pete simply showed all of us the link on the swissrifles forum. Most of the people here thought the Luger was a very nice and sweet one. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-14-2003, 06:46 AM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, As one who has played the importing game, let me assure you there are substantial delays, costs and risks involved. The greatest risk is not having recourse if the piece is not as advertised and being out the cash that you paid for the now import marked piece. Caveat Emptor! Tom A.

01-14-2003, 02:09 PM	#4
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	This particular gun may be altered. I took a look at the rear sight and saw that it does not have the distictive 'V' but rather a 'U'. A closer look might reveal other alterations. Maybe this is why the price is so low. Big Norm

01-14-2003, 06:06 PM	#7
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	I`m new on this board and I`m the owner from this M06/24. You call me a thief Mr.Wood? Thank you! And you Mr. Ebbink , have you ever asked me before you published my pictures and my emails? I think not.

01-14-2003, 07:00 PM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	swissdagger I apologize sincerely for the disparity in our languages that appeared as an insult to you. Actually I was being very complementary and intended to give the impression that this is a very fine and desirable Luger and very likely priced well below what it is worth. As Mr. Tinker pointed out, Mr. Ebbink did not post your pictures, he only posted the link to the location where you had already provided the pictures, which does not require permission from anyone. You have a very good Luger. I hope that you understand now that no offense was intended and no personal confidence was broken. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-14-2003, 08:59 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Stefan, I, too , apologize if you took offense. I was only trying to let members on our Luger Forum know that this beautiful rig was for sale. I also wanted to let folks know about the apparent pricing differences between our two countries... It is nice that members of the Luger Forum and the Swiss weapons site can enjoy both. It is also great that we have new members here that actually live in Europe and Switzerland. We American's tend to forget that collectors are all around the World...and such collector's have different opinions and interests in their pistols. compared to American tastes... I differ with Ron Wood, in that I think the brass emblem inserted into the left grip panel adds beauty to your luger. But this is only my opinion, and I am a beginner in these things. Finally the term "he got that luger for a steal" has the subtle meaning here in the USA that "a buyer was very wise in getting such a great pistol as such a great, low price"... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-15-2003, 01:20 AM	#11
rufe-snow User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: EX-PRK Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The very early production Swiss ( 14 pistol produced in Bern?) that Mel Torme didn't buy from me, had a very different configuration on the rear sight. The "Notch" was perfectly square on the bottom. Almost as it was machined on a Bridgeport Mill with a endmill. Very precise high grade workmanship. This one that is for sale in Switzerland has a altogether different configuration rear sight "Notch" it looks like some of my kitchen table handywork after I had a couple of beers. "Please excuse the following as it's off topic, and long. I bought a Swiss made Bern Luger in the mid 70's when the collecting bug had bitten me really hard. Payed way to much for it, $2,000. That was a lot of money to me in 70's but I had to have it! The only way you could describe it, was being brand new. As I had collected military handguns for many years the idea of finding a 60 year old military issue pistol in that condition was unbeliveable! The Luger was from the first production run at Bern. The serial number placed it in the first 30 Lugers made there in 1919. (15,216 - 15,246) The only thing that disappointed me was that the rear sight had a "square notch" rather then the correct "v notch". I was assured by some RKI's that this wasn't unknown. Some of the Swiss Officers who bought their own pistols had this "professionally" done to improve the sight picture. Fast forward (6) years, I had decided to sell my collection. Most of the stuff went pretty quick but I was having trouble selling the Bern Luger. A co-worker knew Mel Torme he suggested I call him "as he was interested in getting back into Lugers". When I called Torme he invited me up to his home in the Hollywood hills. This guy had a ego that was unbelievable, he was his own favorite subject! I was there a better part of an hour, most of it was taken up with his ex wives and how he had to sell his guns to pay for the divorce, yada! yada! yada!. He did show me some albums with fabulous gun pictures, both Lugers and Colt SAA's. Before I left he offered me $1800, which I turned down. The next time I saw my co-worker, he told me Torme had called him and he was "really pissed". I would up selling the Bern about 6 months later to a local gun show hustler who gave me $1900 + for it. This guy had a reputation for peddling guns south of the border. I often wondered if the Bern wound up down there? I like to ask If any of the members have or know of a early production Bern Luger with a variant rear sight? Hope the Bern is still around and not in some coke baron's collection." __________________ RICHARD

01-15-2003, 03:40 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Richard, Here is some information from Vittorio Bobba's swiss luger book, from pages 93-94 and 193. This is in regards to the "U" shaped rear sight notch... By the time the model 19006/29 W+F Bern came out, the U notch was the standard for that entire model run. Regards. Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-16-2003, 03:24 AM	#13
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Swissdagger, no offence was intended by the use of American slang. I commented on your Luger only because, in America, your Luger was a bargain at the price stated. When a nice looking gun, such as yours, comes up for sale at an unusual price, then I have a tendency to look particularly hard at the Luger to see if there is anything that I missed in my first viewing. It is hard to avoid slang. For instance, a neighbor lady once met another neighbor who happened to be from the UK. The American lady looked at the UK ladys baby and said the it looked like a cute little "bugger". The UK lady was quite offended and walked away. The term "bugger" means something entirely different in America than it does in the UK. Another example is when a German lady, who I often date, was in a bad mood and was complaining a lot. To lighten up the atmosphere, I said "bitch! bitch! bitch!". She thought that I was calling her that name when what I was really saying "complain! complain! complain!". A common slang term in America. I had to do some fast explaining or she would have thrown me out of the house. Nothing personal was meant by any of the above forum posts. I am sorry that you misunderstood the intent of members of this forum, including me. I hope that you understand and return here for more discussion. Big Norm

01-16-2003, 08:38 PM	#14
rufe-snow User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: EX-PRK Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	ME TO! Didn't mean to offend you. I was just being flippant, thought I would add a little levity to the thread. Your outfit would sell in a New York second on this side of the pond. Don't mind us, we're just a bunch of jealous old goats, scheming on how we can our hands on your Luger without the Federallies getting wind of it. __________________ RICHARD

01-17-2003, 02:19 PM	#15
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	Okay, I'm not the greatest with computers so please bear with me. When clicking to this site, I get some kind of learning channel crap.

01-17-2003, 05:39 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Kelly, If you just "click" on the hot link that I set up in my first post that started this thread, it should take you to that Swiss luger rig we all were chatting about... I have re-created it here, as well : http://www.swissrifles.com/~swissdagger/m0624.html Noticed the previous price of $ 1300.00 USD is now replaced with a "Hold" message on the ad. Maybe there is a buy in progress...(?) Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-19-2003, 05:15 PM	#17
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Both Lugers on my website are sold. Goes to Texas. More Lugers are available in two weeks. Thanks Stefan

01-22-2003, 06:27 PM	#18
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Stefan, Good to see you were able to sell your lugers ! And we are glad you came back to the Luger Forum !!! Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> p.s. I suspect that buyer in Texas might be someone we know from El Paso...? Ron Wood, if that is you, great buys ! Pete...

01-22-2003, 07:03 PM	#19
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Nope, not me. Already had examples. Someone else got lucky. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-23-2003, 06:33 AM	#20
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Could it be that Hugh Clark fella? or maybe Leon? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*