LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Krieghoff Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:14 AM   #1
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Side frame Krieghoff

Hi,

I have found this luger two years ago, in a family who didn't collect arms and militaria. The gun and the magazine are originals at 100%. I have found photos wich look like to my model except some d?©tails. My gun has got 5 figures in the serial number and has not a " P" letter. I have seen in a book of Jan C. STILL that only 5 exemplaries are know in this serial number in the world. Is it correct? Could you tell me the value of this gun ?
In advance I thank you very much for your answer.

I have joined photos to this message

Jo-08
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6.jpg
Views:	253
Size:	88.3 KB
ID:	1788  

jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:24 AM   #2
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Side frime Krieghoff

Another photo
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	253
Size:	92.9 KB
ID:	1789  

jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:27 AM   #3
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Side frame Krieghoff

another photo
Attached Images
 
jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:29 AM   #4
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default side frame

another photo
Attached Images
 
jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:30 AM   #5
Ron Smith
User
 
Ron Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 118
Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts
Default

Fenninger,

John D (forum owner) recently had one posted for sale at $10,000. It has been sold, however at an unknown price. My understanding is that Luger values in Europe are somewhat lower than in the U.S.

Ron
__________________
I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one.


What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...
Ron Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:31 AM   #6
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

another photo
Attached Images
 
jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:38 AM   #7
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default side frame

another photo
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2.jpg
Views:	239
Size:	33.1 KB
ID:	1794  

jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-10-2007, 11:47 AM   #8
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,834
Thanks: 1,896
Thanked 4,394 Times in 2,030 Posts
Default

Although John's was a sideframe marking, it is kind of apples and oranges; http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=17151

As Johns is a P code, and is in better shape. Not to say that "fenninger" 's is not valuable, I am sure it is.

I'd want it checked out by someone who knows Krieghoffs really well, that it matches, etc.

PS: Sn 22728 does NOT flow in the known serial numbers, even for "commericial" numbering..

Ed
Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2007, 12:13 AM   #9
Pete Ebbink
User
 
Pete Ebbink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The USA
Posts: 5,919
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

This might be quite a rare one...if like the one shown in R. Gibson's book on HK Lugers on pages 196-198...

Gibson reports some of these rare guns in the 11000, 28000, and 29000 SN range.
Pete Ebbink is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2007, 12:38 PM   #10
Pete Ebbink
User
 
Pete Ebbink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The USA
Posts: 5,919
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

BTW...Simpsons LTD shop had a similar HK for sale in their November 1998 catalogue.

It was listed as an early HK five digit with 150 mm barrel, SN 217xx with an arsenal refinish, very good bore, brown plastic grips. In 1998, the asking price was $ 6500 USD and that was a refinished one. Ad referred to Gibson book, page 198.
Pete Ebbink is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2007, 03:17 PM   #11
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default thanks

Hi,

I would like to thank Ron, Ed, and Pete for your inquiries.
Your answers are helpful for me.

Best regards

Jo?«l
jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2007, 05:34 PM   #12
Pete Ebbink
User
 
Pete Ebbink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The USA
Posts: 5,919
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Joel,

If you do not have the Randall Gibson book about HK Lugers, I would be happy to scan some of the pages I mentioned, above, and email them to you.

Let me know and if you want the scans, send me your email address through the Private Message feature on the Luger Forum.
Pete Ebbink is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-11-2007, 06:21 PM   #13
John D.
Administrator
& Site Owner
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: A Little NE of Somewhere...
Posts: 2,647
Thanks: 459
Thanked 511 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Hmmm.....

Let me pontificate for a moment.....

Most side-frame HKs had a "P" prefix, but yours is a Military Commercial - with a sideframe inscription. The inscription? - It appears to be absolutely correct in placement, characters and form.

As well, the C/N stamps are also correctly oriented and placed in the correct areas, as is the 5-point star.

The Toggle stamp, grips and frame cuts are also correct - based on what I can see...

However, I have not seen a 5-point star on the barrel previously? It would be interesting to see this HK first hand - but, if I were a "betting man" - here would be my assesment...

Military commercial, sideframe, all correct and a unique configuration....

In collecting HKs for years - I've learned "never say never" when it comes to Krieghoff production....

Very nice!!!!

John D.
John D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2007, 12:34 AM   #14
Ron Smith
User
 
Ron Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 118
Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts
Default

John,

The star is probably a French acceptance stamp as found on capture assembled P.38s.

Ron
__________________
I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one.


What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...
Ron Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2007, 09:10 AM   #15
John D.
Administrator
& Site Owner
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: A Little NE of Somewhere...
Posts: 2,647
Thanks: 459
Thanked 511 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Ron Smith
John,

The star is probably a French acceptance stamp as found on capture assembled P.38s.

Ron
Hi Ron,

I think you may be right on..! I never considered a French Acceptance star!

Thanks - and best to you!

John
John D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2007, 11:49 AM   #16
Pete Ebbink
User
 
Pete Ebbink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The USA
Posts: 5,919
Thanks: 0
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
Default

John,

The 5-point star on the barrel looks like it might have been applied before the bluing of the barrel.

Is this consistent with other HK "stars" one sees ?

Ron,

Would a French-applied star show halo if the gun has not been refinished ?

I keep looking at the photos thinking the finish is original and then I think I see deep pits on the top of the toggle train that look like they are blued down deep...
Pete Ebbink is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2007, 01:32 PM   #17
John D.
Administrator
& Site Owner
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: A Little NE of Somewhere...
Posts: 2,647
Thanks: 459
Thanked 511 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Hey Pete!

Good eye. I'm not sure that the star on the barrel doesn't look distorted by nature, rather than refinishing (a flat stamp on a round barrel ) It would be interesting to measure the size of star on the bbl and compare it to the receiver, as I understand the French star is slightly larger (??) than an HK star - but I don't have anything with a French Star to measure??

best to you!

John D.
John D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2007, 04:17 PM   #18
jo-08
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: I'm living in France
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default more informations

hi Pete, John and Ron,

It's a pleasure for me to see your interest to my H.K. It's not easy in France to have good informations.
I would like to add, that except a normal cleaning by me, this finish is original. It was exciting and a great moment to find it in a family who didn't collect arms. No doubts about the origin of this gun.

In a few days I'll put new photos of this gun magazine on the forum. I think it is also particular.

Best regards.

Jo?«l
jo-08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2007, 06:10 PM   #19
John D.
Administrator
& Site Owner
LugerForum
Patron
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: A Little NE of Somewhere...
Posts: 2,647
Thanks: 459
Thanked 511 Times in 126 Posts
Default

Hi Jo?«l.!

It's our pleasure!! Ron and Peter are a fountain of knowledge - and I just hang on for the ride

Seriously, I would like to see more pictures - and of the magazine as well!

Jo?«l - welcome again to the LugerForum and thanks for sharing "your find"!!

John D.
John D. is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 06-12-2007, 06:39 PM   #20
Ron Smith
User
 
Ron Smith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Orygun
Posts: 4,243
Thanks: 118
Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts
Default

I'm a fountain... Pete's kind of a faucet...
__________________
I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one.


What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...
Ron Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2023, Lugerforum.com