Help--Receiver rail is warped!!

Brien · 06-26-2007, 07:56 PM

I just received my 6 in barrel and receiver, it seems thought that the left rail is warped. The receiver won't fit all the way into the frame it stops and james up with about an inch to go.

Also, are there two sizes of Toggle bolts? I took the Toogle assembly off my Parts DWM and tried to put it into the reveiver but the toggle bolt is a smidge too large to fit.

Any ideas, suggestions? Should I return the barrel? Is there hope?

Brien · 06-26-2007, 08:07 PM

Pics of the rail

Brien · 06-26-2007, 08:08 PM

Toggle Bolt

Brien · 06-26-2007, 08:09 PM

Overall

Pete Ebbink · 06-26-2007, 08:27 PM

Hi Brien,

The 1st. photo you posted appears to show a deep dent/pinch/crimp along the left side of the barrel as well...near the barrel shoulder (i.e. about 1 inch away...) where it screws into the receiver.

The "roundness" of your barrel and its ability to SAFELY allow a bullet to travel its length would be a big doubt and concern if this one were mine.

If you have a chance to return and get a refund, you would probably be better off...

Brien · 06-26-2007, 10:08 PM

The barrel is fine, just a trick of the lighting.

Can the rest be fixed?

DaveinTN · 06-26-2007, 11:10 PM

Pete,

If Brien is lucky enough to get a refund for a botched barrel installation, will he still be stuck with a warped/bent receiver?

There was an earlier post (Link provided below) regarding the spacing between the forks and whether or not it could be restored. The advice offered seemed pretty drastic.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=17071

In other words, can his problem be repaired, or should he start saving for another receiver?

Dave in TN.

lugerholsterrepair · 06-26-2007, 11:12 PM

Perhaps a littl history is in order..Where did the barrel come from? Who installed it?, what do they have to say about it? Do the witness marks or the sight line up properly? Did it work before you sent it off? Is there enough distortion to observe it by eye? Will it fit without the bolt installed? I take it the pin will not line up enough to meet the opposite hole from your photo?
It's certainly possible that the barrel installation went wrong...The barrel installer may have not used a proper wrench on the reciever.
Is this the reciever that came with the pistol?
Jerry Burney

lfid · 06-26-2007, 11:52 PM

Brien,

if this happens to be an ebay purchase , I would suggest immediate email to seller with findings of undisclosed defective condition and state you will return and want full refund . ebay sellers need to protect their feedback ratings. significant defect is obvious in your photo

good luck
Bill

Vlim · 06-27-2007, 06:08 AM

Brien,

The toggle pins came in different sizes, zo it's possible that your pin is just slightly too large for the holes on the receiver.

The warping of the receiver on the other hand indeed appears to be the result of some considerable force on the wrong spot, while installing the barrel. I would have serious doubts about the safety of the receiver, even after it is 'modified' to fit the frame rail.

The barrel looks nice, perhaps having the barrel fitted to another receiver will be an option, otherwise, I'd follow Bill's advice and return the barrel/receiver combo to the seller.

John Sabato · 06-27-2007, 09:17 AM

I would inquire with Lugerdoc (Tom Heller), Hugh (Clark), THOR (Ted Green) to start. I am no longer equipped to handle such drastic repairs, but I believe that this severe damage can be restored to functionality... the question is: At what price? I would say a refund is in order, or at least a MAJOR reduction in price based on a few legitmate estimates...

Lugerdoc · 06-27-2007, 12:04 PM

Brien, I agree with the above comments. Particularly, John's saying that given enough time & money, most things are possible. I wouldn't waste either on this job. Sometimes, bargain prices, aren't bargains. Tom

Brien · 06-27-2007, 12:36 PM

Thank you very much Gentlemen

I knew it was to good to be true

Back to square one

John Sabato · 06-27-2007, 02:26 PM

Brien,

Please check your private messages by clicking on the "profile" link at the top of the page.

Quentin · 07-03-2007, 03:59 PM

Brien, I remember the ebay auction #260128117573 where you got this receiver and barrel. Have you talked with the seller (as I remember he had excellent feedback)? And have you been able to determine where the receiver catches on the frame and what may be necessary to fix it (if safe and feasable)? Jerry had a great idea in trying it without the toggle assembly. Anything obvious when you compare this receiver with the one that's currently working with your frame? First thing that comes to mind is a long receiver on a short frame but since the receiver is 1938 that's not possible. Anyway please keep us updated.

I'm sorry to hear this hasn't worked out well. It seemed like a good way to build up a "Navy" shooter. Hope it turns out well in the end for you.

Pete Ebbink · 07-03-2007, 05:58 PM

I had Mike Krause of San Matoe, CA about 4 years ago fix a nice shooter luger I bought at Tulsa...the receiver forks had been twisted and the toggle-train had quite a bit of resistance going back and forward.

Krause has a very sophisticated machine shop with all the latest gizmos and tooling.

Within 3 minutes, he had taken the twist out of the fork and I have easily put 1000 rounds through the gun since...

Mike only charged $ 20 to do the work.

Bob G · 07-16-2007, 08:01 PM

I guess EBay is slipping up. They allowed a firearm receiver to be sold without an FFL. I thought that violated their rules. They probably didn't realize it was a firearm receiver.
The receiver rail certainly seems to have a depression just behind the chamber area. The way the light is shinning on the rail, it is difficult to tell if it is in fact a slight depression. A good straight edge would tell if the rail is depressed in that area.

RBorecky · 07-16-2007, 08:20 PM

Yep that is clearly a vise while torquing the barrel on. The did a backyard vise technique on it. Darn no-it-alls. Rick B

Hugh · 07-17-2007, 12:54 AM

Bob G,

According to the BATF a Luger receiver is not a firearm, just the frame. Go figure!

LugerVern · 07-17-2007, 02:05 PM

Because of the amount of external damage I suspect that there may be internal damage as well, this will cause your toggle to hang up, something you havenÃ¢??t had a chance to check yet.
As Pete says it can be fixed even if warped and from the picture I believe it is.

I am very concerned about the head spacing, how was it adjusted without an operating toggle? Did they tell you, that head spacing was your responsibility? As simple as I can put itÃ¢?Â Your gun will self destruct if itÃ¢??s not adjusted properlyÃ¢?Â.

I hate to see this sort of damage, completely unnecessary.

Vern

06-26-2007, 07:56 PM	#1
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Help--Receiver rail is warped!! I just received my 6 in barrel and receiver, it seems thought that the left rail is warped. The receiver won't fit all the way into the frame it stops and james up with about an inch to go. Also, are there two sizes of Toggle bolts? I took the Toogle assembly off my Parts DWM and tried to put it into the reveiver but the toggle bolt is a smidge too large to fit. Any ideas, suggestions? Should I return the barrel? Is there hope?

06-26-2007, 08:08 PM	#3
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Pics of the Toggle Bolt Toggle Bolt Attached Thumbnails

06-26-2007, 08:09 PM	#4
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Overall photo Overall Attached Thumbnails

06-26-2007, 10:08 PM	#6
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Barrel indentation The barrel is fine, just a trick of the lighting. Can the rest be fixed?

06-26-2007, 11:12 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,852 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Perhaps a littl history is in order..Where did the barrel come from? Who installed it?, what do they have to say about it? Do the witness marks or the sight line up properly? Did it work before you sent it off? Is there enough distortion to observe it by eye? Will it fit without the bolt installed? I take it the pin will not line up enough to meet the opposite hole from your photo? It's certainly possible that the barrel installation went wrong...The barrel installer may have not used a proper wrench on the reciever. Is this the reciever that came with the pistol? Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-26-2007, 08:07 PM	#2
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Pictures Pics of the rail Attached Thumbnails

06-26-2007, 08:27 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Brien, The 1st. photo you posted appears to show a deep dent/pinch/crimp along the left side of the barrel as well...near the barrel shoulder (i.e. about 1 inch away...) where it screws into the receiver. The "roundness" of your barrel and its ability to SAFELY allow a bullet to travel its length would be a big doubt and concern if this one were mine. If you have a chance to return and get a refund, you would probably be better off...

06-26-2007, 11:10 PM	#7
DaveinTN User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 186 Thanks: 3 Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts	Pete, If Brien is lucky enough to get a refund for a botched barrel installation, will he still be stuck with a warped/bent receiver? There was an earlier post (Link provided below) regarding the spacing between the forks and whether or not it could be restored. The advice offered seemed pretty drastic. http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...threadid=17071 In other words, can his problem be repaired, or should he start saving for another receiver? Dave in TN.

06-26-2007, 11:52 PM	#9
lfid Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wichita, KS USA Posts: 453 Thanks: 573 Thanked 96 Times in 53 Posts	Brien, if this happens to be an ebay purchase , I would suggest immediate email to seller with findings of undisclosed defective condition and state you will return and want full refund . ebay sellers need to protect their feedback ratings. significant defect is obvious in your photo good luck Bill

06-27-2007, 06:08 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Brien, The toggle pins came in different sizes, zo it's possible that your pin is just slightly too large for the holes on the receiver. The warping of the receiver on the other hand indeed appears to be the result of some considerable force on the wrong spot, while installing the barrel. I would have serious doubts about the safety of the receiver, even after it is 'modified' to fit the frame rail. The barrel looks nice, perhaps having the barrel fitted to another receiver will be an option, otherwise, I'd follow Bill's advice and return the barrel/receiver combo to the seller.

06-27-2007, 09:17 AM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Extreme situation. I would inquire with Lugerdoc (Tom Heller), Hugh (Clark), THOR (Ted Green) to start. I am no longer equipped to handle such drastic repairs, but I believe that this severe damage can be restored to functionality... the question is: At what price? I would say a refund is in order, or at least a MAJOR reduction in price based on a few legitmate estimates... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-27-2007, 12:04 PM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Brien, I agree with the above comments. Particularly, John's saying that given enough time & money, most things are possible. I wouldn't waste either on this job. Sometimes, bargain prices, aren't bargains. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-27-2007, 12:36 PM	#13
Brien User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Choctaw ok Posts: 53 Thanks: 17 Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts	Warped Rail Thank you very much Gentlemen I knew it was to good to be true Back to square one

06-27-2007, 02:26 PM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Brien, Please check your private messages by clicking on the "profile" link at the top of the page. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-03-2007, 03:59 PM	#15
Quentin User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 124 Thanks: 59 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts	Brien, I remember the ebay auction #260128117573 where you got this receiver and barrel. Have you talked with the seller (as I remember he had excellent feedback)? And have you been able to determine where the receiver catches on the frame and what may be necessary to fix it (if safe and feasable)? Jerry had a great idea in trying it without the toggle assembly. Anything obvious when you compare this receiver with the one that's currently working with your frame? First thing that comes to mind is a long receiver on a short frame but since the receiver is 1938 that's not possible. Anyway please keep us updated. I'm sorry to hear this hasn't worked out well. It seemed like a good way to build up a "Navy" shooter. Hope it turns out well in the end for you.

07-03-2007, 05:58 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I had Mike Krause of San Matoe, CA about 4 years ago fix a nice shooter luger I bought at Tulsa...the receiver forks had been twisted and the toggle-train had quite a bit of resistance going back and forward. Krause has a very sophisticated machine shop with all the latest gizmos and tooling. Within 3 minutes, he had taken the twist out of the fork and I have easily put 1000 rounds through the gun since... Mike only charged $ 20 to do the work.

07-16-2007, 08:01 PM	#17
Bob G User Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 11 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I guess EBay is slipping up. They allowed a firearm receiver to be sold without an FFL. I thought that violated their rules. They probably didn't realize it was a firearm receiver. The receiver rail certainly seems to have a depression just behind the chamber area. The way the light is shinning on the rail, it is difficult to tell if it is in fact a slight depression. A good straight edge would tell if the rail is depressed in that area. __________________ Do It Right The First Time!

07-16-2007, 08:20 PM	#18
RBorecky User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yep that is clearly a vise while torquing the barrel on. The did a backyard vise technique on it. Darn no-it-alls. Rick B

07-17-2007, 12:54 AM	#19
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Bob G, According to the BATF a Luger receiver is not a firearm, just the frame. Go figure! __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

07-17-2007, 02:05 PM	#20
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Because of the amount of external damage I suspect that there may be internal damage as well, this will cause your toggle to hang up, something you havenÃ¢??t had a chance to check yet. As Pete says it can be fixed even if warped and from the picture I believe it is. I am very concerned about the head spacing, how was it adjusted without an operating toggle? Did they tell you, that head spacing was your responsibility? As simple as I can put itÃ¢?Â Your gun will self destruct if itÃ¢??s not adjusted properlyÃ¢?Â. I hate to see this sort of damage, completely unnecessary. Vern