.22 Upper Questions

milesc2 · 11-10-2017, 10:33 AM

I have seen a few discussion here and there about .22 conversions and .22 complete upper assemblies.

Stumbled across strange this .22 upper on Gunbroker and have two questions for the experts. I know it is impossible to answer these questions for certain, just wanted to get some of your thoughts.

1. Is this item worth the asking price or anything close to it?

2. I don't see a feed ramp cut of any kind on this unit. Do you think it would actually feed and cycle?

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/715459234

Thanks!

hayhugh · 11-10-2017, 10:47 AM

Also there is the magazine to worry about altho an emma might do?

George Anderson · 11-10-2017, 10:56 AM

I'll sell a complete conversion set for a dollar more than his asking price.

Edward Tinker · 11-10-2017, 11:28 AM

If it works, that is not a bad price. A kit that Geo has might be smarter overall.

I had an upper, with a swagged in insert that a friend worked on for months for me and got it working okay. I do not know if a normal mag would work with it (22 magazine) without a feedramp, it sounds like a 22 single shot

ithacaartist · 11-10-2017, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Anderson

I'll sell a complete conversion set for a dollar more than his asking price.

Me, too.

It's an interesting start to a project like Ed's, but waaay overpriced. This approach is uncommon and a mechanical curiosity, only worth pursuing as a pure labor of love at this level of investment.

And one would not need to install it in a frame to shoot it!

DonVoigt · 11-10-2017, 12:06 PM

I agree with the others, over priced.
And likely will not work as an auto loader- or maybe at all.

Forget it and get the kit from George!

John Sabato · 11-10-2017, 01:15 PM

While the work looks credible, the lack of the feed ramp makes me think this is an unfinished project. If you are buying it to tinker and make it work, then think about what it would cost to buy a 9mm upper, and do all the modification and machine work you see.

$500 for a working upper would not be a bad price for a unique item like this if magazine fed, but single shot?. AND, $500 would almost buy you a complete and working ERMA .22 conversion.

What the value is to the buyer would be very subjective...
I concur that you should buy George's unit.

milesc2 · 11-10-2017, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the input everyone. My plan was to try to talk the seller down on price and take on the project.

However due to the reasons you all pointed out I think I will pass on it.

Pretty much assumed it was beyond my skill level when I noticed lack of a feed ramp.

The conversion set is tempting and thanks for the offer but I am going to hold off for a while due to another project I have in mind.

kurusu · 11-10-2017, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

While the work looks credible, the lack of the feed ramp makes me think this is an unfinished project. If you are buying it to tinker and make it work, then think about what it would cost to buy a 9mm upper, and do all the modification and machine work you see.

$500 for a working upper would not be a bad price for a unique item like this if magazine fed, but single shot?. AND, $500 would almost buy you a complete and working ERMA .22 conversion.

What the value is to the buyer would be very subjective...
I concur that you should buy George's unit.

I would not say unfinished. Since it has a full size toggle, I believe this thing was meant as a single shot. That also explains the lack of a magazine.

milesc2 · 11-10-2017, 09:13 PM

So to make this a semi auto you would (in theory) need to find the correct mag, cut a feed ramp, drill out the toggle to make it lighter and then cut the mainspring enough to allow it to cycle?

Way beyond my amateur skill level but cool to think about!

Again, thanks for the advice on this everyone!

-Miles

Rick W. · 11-10-2017, 09:42 PM

Kinda an interesting piece really, but not enough info or pictures to tell much. A bit pricey it might seem; guess that is in the eye of the beholder.

I suspect that a new barrel blank was installed.

Boring the 9mm or 30 Luger bore out for a liner is not much of a deal, best done with a piloted drill followed by a reamer; with some discretion as to what bore size is used where to hide the lines at the breech and muzzle. The new retainers do a nice job of securing the liner to the supporting barrel proper, but some still solder. The bushing and plugging of the breechblock is not overly complicated, one would also suspect that the existing firing pin is utilized with an offset nose. Cannot see if the barrel is relieved or not for said firing pin hit.

The lack of a feed ramp does not bother much if the piece is considered a single shot. One sees Swiss type target Lugers in 22lr with offset bores, single shot. One of the better American 22 target pistols does not utilize a feed ramp, but rather the magazine feed lips dictate the cartridge into the chamber, of course, is the High Standard autoloader. Getting the basic centerfire Luger to feed rimfire does have its challenges.

One has to consider the control of the toggle train for a single shot.

The thing that I cannot see very well is the amount of case exposure from the rather large intrusion(?) into the chamber area. The 22lr does not like to be unsupported. If it is a fully supported chamber, then one would have some faith in safe function at a minimum.........in my opinion of course.

I have often pined over the Swiss version of a 22lr single shot with longish slender offset barrel, special tall adjustable sights, and just the jazz of such a thing at all. Seems all doable to me, other than the offset barrel, takes a bigger lathe than I got. Christmas is coming I hear.

Does show some basic concepts for a simplistic mods for such though if one so chooses.

11-10-2017, 10:33 AM	#1
milesc2 User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Kansas City Posts: 214 Thanks: 324 Thanked 249 Times in 66 Posts	.22 Upper Questions I have seen a few discussion here and there about .22 conversions and .22 complete upper assemblies. Stumbled across strange this .22 upper on Gunbroker and have two questions for the experts. I know it is impossible to answer these questions for certain, just wanted to get some of your thoughts. 1. Is this item worth the asking price or anything close to it? 2. I don't see a feed ramp cut of any kind on this unit. Do you think it would actually feed and cycle? http://www.gunbroker.com/item/715459234 Thanks!

11-10-2017, 11:28 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	If it works, that is not a bad price. A kit that Geo has might be smarter overall. I had an upper, with a swagged in insert that a friend worked on for months for me and got it working okay. I do not know if a normal mag would work with it (22 magazine) without a feedramp, it sounds like a 22 single shot __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-10-2017, 12:06 PM	#6
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts	I agree with the others, over priced. And likely will not work as an auto loader- or maybe at all. Forget it and get the kit from George! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

11-10-2017, 01:15 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	While the work looks credible, the lack of the feed ramp makes me think this is an unfinished project. If you are buying it to tinker and make it work, then think about what it would cost to buy a 9mm upper, and do all the modification and machine work you see. $500 for a working upper would not be a bad price for a unique item like this if magazine fed, but single shot?. AND, $500 would almost buy you a complete and working ERMA .22 conversion. What the value is to the buyer would be very subjective... I concur that you should buy George's unit. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-10-2017, 10:47 AM	#2
hayhugh User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Florida/Penna Posts: 884 Thanks: 849 Thanked 507 Times in 270 Posts	Also there is the magazine to worry about altho an emma might do?

11-10-2017, 10:56 AM	#3
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,772 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I'll sell a complete conversion set for a dollar more than his asking price.

11-10-2017, 01:59 PM	#8
milesc2 User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Kansas City Posts: 214 Thanks: 324 Thanked 249 Times in 66 Posts	Thanks for the input everyone. My plan was to try to talk the seller down on price and take on the project. However due to the reasons you all pointed out I think I will pass on it. Pretty much assumed it was beyond my skill level when I noticed lack of a feed ramp. The conversion set is tempting and thanks for the offer but I am going to hold off for a while due to another project I have in mind.

11-10-2017, 09:13 PM	#10
milesc2 User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Kansas City Posts: 214 Thanks: 324 Thanked 249 Times in 66 Posts	So to make this a semi auto you would (in theory) need to find the correct mag, cut a feed ramp, drill out the toggle to make it lighter and then cut the mainspring enough to allow it to cycle? Way beyond my amateur skill level but cool to think about! Again, thanks for the advice on this everyone! -Miles

11-10-2017, 09:42 PM	#11
Rick W. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 339 Thanks: 81 Thanked 359 Times in 198 Posts	Kinda an interesting piece really, but not enough info or pictures to tell much. A bit pricey it might seem; guess that is in the eye of the beholder. I suspect that a new barrel blank was installed. Boring the 9mm or 30 Luger bore out for a liner is not much of a deal, best done with a piloted drill followed by a reamer; with some discretion as to what bore size is used where to hide the lines at the breech and muzzle. The new retainers do a nice job of securing the liner to the supporting barrel proper, but some still solder. The bushing and plugging of the breechblock is not overly complicated, one would also suspect that the existing firing pin is utilized with an offset nose. Cannot see if the barrel is relieved or not for said firing pin hit. The lack of a feed ramp does not bother much if the piece is considered a single shot. One sees Swiss type target Lugers in 22lr with offset bores, single shot. One of the better American 22 target pistols does not utilize a feed ramp, but rather the magazine feed lips dictate the cartridge into the chamber, of course, is the High Standard autoloader. Getting the basic centerfire Luger to feed rimfire does have its challenges. One has to consider the control of the toggle train for a single shot. The thing that I cannot see very well is the amount of case exposure from the rather large intrusion(?) into the chamber area. The 22lr does not like to be unsupported. If it is a fully supported chamber, then one would have some faith in safe function at a minimum.........in my opinion of course. I have often pined over the Swiss version of a 22lr single shot with longish slender offset barrel, special tall adjustable sights, and just the jazz of such a thing at all. Seems all doable to me, other than the offset barrel, takes a bigger lathe than I got. Christmas is coming I hear. Does show some basic concepts for a simplistic mods for such though if one so chooses.