Matching Luger question - Don't Shoot! - Page 2

12-18-2001, 09:01 PM

I can't believe it--all this for replacing an extractor. Find the right number if you can Denny. I doubt that the Gods will decend on you. The Luger will be more desirable to you, look better and who will know the difference a year from now. I wish some of our "fake detectives" would go after ben ladin and leave you guys alone. It isn't like you are a thief trying to fake a Million $ Luger!!!! and then palm it off for 2 mil.

12-18-2001, 09:09 PM

!

That's a hash mark, I'm writing this down in my little black book, one extractor in a re-blued gun...

Art, you just never know? Denny might be knocking on your door next week trying to sell that bugger and get ya!

heh, heh,

Ed

Kyrie · 12-18-2001, 09:13 PM

Hi Bill,

I have to respectfully disagree. Ã¢??Not getting caughtÃ¢?Â isnÃ¢??t the same thing as being honest :-(

Best regards,

Kyrie

Kyrie · 12-18-2001, 09:19 PM

Hi Like,

Actually there are ways to spot most types of parts swapping - itÃ¢??s a skill acquired over the years and the examination of a lot of Lugers. We emphatically do not have to live with it. A newbie buying his first high dollar collector grade Luger is well advised to have it examined by an older collector before plunking down his money. Or buy from an established collector/dealer with a good reputation who stands behind his Lugers.

Best regards,

Kyrie

Kyrie · 12-18-2001, 09:23 PM

Hi Ed,

Lugers, unlike Colt 1911A1Ã¢??s were not made with fully interchangeable parts - there was a lot of hand fitting done during final assembly. When a part was replaced due to breakage that new part was numbered to the pistol for a very good reason - it might not work in any other Luger. Replacement parts were not numbered until they were used, and when used were numbered to the pistol.

Best regards,

Kyrie

Kyrie · 12-18-2001, 09:27 PM

Hi Art,

Actually itÃ¢??s taking a $300 shooter and making it look like a $1200 collector grade gun. It wonÃ¢??t fool most older collectors, but it will snag a newbie, and clipping a fellow for $900 is still not a nice thing to do.

Best regards,

Kyrie

12-18-2001, 10:28 PM

You found me out folks. I'm really Osama Bin Luger, the pistol-faking terrorist who lies in wait at gunshows for anyone other than the venerable and holy "experts" here.

Seriously, please keep your eyes open for me (the magic number is "61").

I swear on my copy of the anarchists' cookbook that my pistol will never be passed off as anything other than what it is (MINE!).

Thanks for your replies both on- and offline. Happy holidays!

Denny

Johnny Peppers · 12-18-2001, 10:59 PM

A high percentage of the Lugers out there show signs of having a screwdriver used on the takedown lever. This is not from the sideplate not matching, but from someone that has no idea how a Luger is torn down.

bill m · 12-18-2001, 11:52 PM

Hi,

There are a few small parts that one can tell have been changed if you know what to look for, like the extractor on a Mauser, or the side plate, but most like the rear connecting pin or the trigger in my opinion can not be detected. You are not committing fraud as you are restoring the gun back to an all matching gun from one that isn't. Someone else replaced the part with an incorrect one, and you can speculate all you want as to who, and what there reason was. This does not change the fact that the gun does not now have all matching numbers. You own the gun and you put a value on what is important to you -- all matching or not. In my opinion one should feel good to have restored a piece back to all matching, and shouldn't feel on bit guilty about replacing a mismatched part. Think about this, if you did not personally pick the Luger up at the factory, how do you know that any matching Luger is all original?

Thor · 12-18-2001, 11:53 PM

Johnny, I have seen a few that were impossible to take down without a leverage tool of some kind! That is not right, I have fairly strong fingers (I used them all day long) so I can say with good probability that something was amiss! My fingernails would break before the sucker would turn! ~Thor~

Luke · 12-19-2001, 06:35 AM

Johnny,

My "Bavaria Rural Police" Luger had been salt blued, but was all matching, however the Takedown Lever had been actually mangled by someone with a heavy hand. Shame.

Luke · 12-19-2001, 06:48 AM

Johnny Peppers · 12-19-2001, 09:44 AM

Luke,

You occasionally see one that the lever has actually been bent down in an attempt to move it.

Thor · 12-19-2001, 09:54 AM

Dok's Luger's takedown was bent so bad and worked so poorly that it had to be replaced and the new takedown/sideplate fit had to be adjusted. Thor

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/DSCN1581.JPG

12-19-2001, 11:56 AM

Good comments. I'm pretty sure that one of the KU lugers mentioned in a previous discussion with a W/154 G date armour's spare barrel, is an unnumbered unissued barrel that I sold some years ago to a restorer who specializes in doing Kreighoffs. He claims to have refinished at least 25% of all of the KH PO8s listed by serial number in Gibson's book. Tom h.

Hugh · 12-19-2001, 12:25 PM

Big Norm,

Ah gott wun, butt hit's in ma Navy an U kant hav hit!

12-19-2001, 05:53 PM

All this part replacing makes we wince when I read the classifieds where people are scouring the woods for a particular numbered part. And often the parts they are looking for are major ones, certain to interfere with proper functioning. IMO such ads should not be accepted in the Luger forum classifieds. There may be no fraud intended, but inevitably some buyer down the line will get hurt.

12-18-2001, 09:01 PM	#21
Art Buchanan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Matching Luger question - Don't Shoot! I can't believe it--all this for replacing an extractor. Find the right number if you can Denny. I doubt that the Gods will decend on you. The Luger will be more desirable to you, look better and who will know the difference a year from now. I wish some of our "fake detectives" would go after ben ladin and leave you guys alone. It isn't like you are a thief trying to fake a Million $ Luger!!!! and then palm it off for 2 mil.

12-18-2001, 09:09 PM	#22
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Matching Luger question - Don't Shoot! ! That's a hash mark, I'm writing this down in my little black book, one extractor in a re-blued gun... Art, you just never know? Denny might be knocking on your door next week trying to sell that bugger and get ya! heh, heh, Ed

12-18-2001, 09:13 PM	#23
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Matching Luger question - Don't Shoot! Hi Bill, I have to respectfully disagree. Ã¢??Not getting caughtÃ¢?Â isnÃ¢??t the same thing as being honest :-( Best regards, Kyrie

12-18-2001, 09:19 PM	#24
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Kyrie is Right on Target Hi Like, Actually there are ways to spot most types of parts swapping - itÃ¢??s a skill acquired over the years and the examination of a lot of Lugers. We emphatically do not have to live with it. A newbie buying his first high dollar collector grade Luger is well advised to have it examined by an older collector before plunking down his money. Or buy from an established collector/dealer with a good reputation who stands behind his Lugers. Best regards, Kyrie

12-18-2001, 09:23 PM	#25
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Vet bring back non-collector piece? Hi Ed, Lugers, unlike Colt 1911A1Ã¢??s were not made with fully interchangeable parts - there was a lot of hand fitting done during final assembly. When a part was replaced due to breakage that new part was numbered to the pistol for a very good reason - it might not work in any other Luger. Replacement parts were not numbered until they were used, and when used were numbered to the pistol. Best regards, Kyrie

12-18-2001, 09:27 PM	#26
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Matching Luger question - Don't Shoot! Hi Art, Actually itÃ¢??s taking a $300 shooter and making it look like a $1200 collector grade gun. It wonÃ¢??t fool most older collectors, but it will snag a newbie, and clipping a fellow for $900 is still not a nice thing to do. Best regards, Kyrie

12-18-2001, 10:28 PM	#27
Denny Cox Guest Posts: n/a	Medic! I'm hit! (Osama Bin Luger) You found me out folks. I'm really Osama Bin Luger, the pistol-faking terrorist who lies in wait at gunshows for anyone other than the venerable and holy "experts" here. Seriously, please keep your eyes open for me (the magic number is "61"). I swear on my copy of the anarchists' cookbook that my pistol will never be passed off as anything other than what it is (MINE!). Thanks for your replies both on- and offline. Happy holidays! Denny

12-18-2001, 10:59 PM	#28
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Matching Luger -A Perponderance? A high percentage of the Lugers out there show signs of having a screwdriver used on the takedown lever. This is not from the sideplate not matching, but from someone that has no idea how a Luger is torn down.

12-18-2001, 11:52 PM	#29
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Seriously Doubt Anyone Can Tell Hi, There are a few small parts that one can tell have been changed if you know what to look for, like the extractor on a Mauser, or the side plate, but most like the rear connecting pin or the trigger in my opinion can not be detected. You are not committing fraud as you are restoring the gun back to an all matching gun from one that isn't. Someone else replaced the part with an incorrect one, and you can speculate all you want as to who, and what there reason was. This does not change the fact that the gun does not now have all matching numbers. You own the gun and you put a value on what is important to you -- all matching or not. In my opinion one should feel good to have restored a piece back to all matching, and shouldn't feel on bit guilty about replacing a mismatched part. Think about this, if you did not personally pick the Luger up at the factory, how do you know that any matching Luger is all original?

12-18-2001, 11:53 PM	#30
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Matching Luger -A Perponderance? Johnny, I have seen a few that were impossible to take down without a leverage tool of some kind! That is not right, I have fairly strong fingers (I used them all day long) so I can say with good probability that something was amiss! My fingernails would break before the sucker would turn! ~Thor~

12-19-2001, 06:35 AM	#31
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Matching Luger -A Perponderance? Johnny, My "Bavaria Rural Police" Luger had been salt blued, but was all matching, however the Takedown Lever had been actually mangled by someone with a heavy hand. Shame.

12-19-2001, 06:48 AM	#32
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Some good points, bill m. (EOM)

12-19-2001, 09:44 AM	#33
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Matching Luger -A Perponderance? Luke, You occasionally see one that the lever has actually been bent down in an attempt to move it.

12-19-2001, 09:54 AM	#34
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Matching Luger -A Perponderance? Dok's Luger's takedown was bent so bad and worked so poorly that it had to be replaced and the new takedown/sideplate fit had to be adjusted. Thor http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/DSCN1581.JPG

12-19-2001, 11:56 AM	#35
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Matching Luger question - Don't Shoot! Good comments. I'm pretty sure that one of the KU lugers mentioned in a previous discussion with a W/154 G date armour's spare barrel, is an unnumbered unissued barrel that I sold some years ago to a restorer who specializes in doing Kreighoffs. He claims to have refinished at least 25% of all of the KH PO8s listed by serial number in Gibson's book. Tom h.

12-19-2001, 12:25 PM	#36
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Arf! Arf! Big Norm, Ah gott wun, butt hit's in ma Navy an U kant hav hit!

12-19-2001, 05:53 PM	#37
Herbert Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Seriously Doubt Anyone Can Tell All this part replacing makes we wince when I read the classifieds where people are scouring the woods for a particular numbered part. And often the parts they are looking for are major ones, certain to interfere with proper functioning. IMO such ads should not be accepted in the Luger forum classifieds. There may be no fraud intended, but inevitably some buyer down the line will get hurt.