To Kyrie, preasure data.

Ted,

It appears that the spring design standard was 51 to 57 lbs fully compressed and I think the the Wolf springs are running around 65 lbs. I will need to check that. If your guns are working fine - certainly no need to change. My point is that today the so called chamber pressure standards are set so the Saturday night specials don't blow up, but those standards are way below the Lugers design limits. We are comparing the needs of a design heavy combat gun to those chamber pressure standards that are set to include anything that was ever made for the round, including the worst designed guns. Its the times - don't want to be sued by someone buying a cheap gun and using commercial ammo.


I am just saying the Luger was designed to take a heavier load then we can buy over the counter today. So don't blame malfunctions on the gun until you have provided the ammo it was designed to used.

[Thor]

Hakan, I sure do hold them stiffly, because Dok's Luger went full auto on my and after that little episode, I grip them hard indeed, lol! Thor

[Thor]

AND they were proofed for a 20% over load I am told! Some malfunctions of a sluggish mechanism can be attributed to parts guns that have too much internal friction and especially guns that have the receiver torqued out of alignment due to a barrel change! Again, if they work with std ammo, why shoot hotter ammo in it? All my reworks work with strong spring and std ammo! Thor

Ted,


This started with someone saying that commercial ammo is made to international standards and any malfunxtion is the guns problem. NOT TRUE. I am saying the "standard" is designed to shoot in all guns on the market today, The Luger is on the high end of the design standard and a 100% function is not a consideration. If you bought a 57 Vette and it woun't light the tires for 100 yards - don't blame the car untill you use the 100 octane fuel it was designed to use. The Luger is a heavy duty design and for reliable use needs the ammo it was designed for. Don't believe me - go out and buy a box of Italian ammo and tell me how happy you are with your guns performance. That ammo is built to the so called international standards and its data is used by the propleeant manufactures for reload recommendations. They didn't build 8,000,000 guns because it was a "jammer". Remember the Broom was a jammer until it got the Luger cartage design - needed more juice.

Just a thought.

[Thor]

The Fiocchi AMMO in 30 Luger is one of the weakest around, it fails to function lots of Lugers! The Winchester AMERICAN Ammo is the hotest around! Thor

[Thor]

Okay Reb, I will give you some relief now! I dont know that 9mm is loaded hotter elsewhere, I will take your word for it that it is. I also will fully agree that the Luger was designed for a hotter round and can normally take it! What I would like to point out it I dont believe the Germans ever had any idea that these guns would be fired as many times as they have been! A gun that is 80 years + and seen many thousand rounds through it is bound to have some metal fatique (repeated cycles of loading and unloading) I just cant see hammering it with original loaded ammo and saying, see it works fine when I have not had ONE, not one Luger through my shop that wouldnt function with std pressure ammo. Is the point to fire a Luger and enjoy it or to continue to stress it to the point that the metal fails. I have had reports from some that the toggle ears were bent from hot ammo. The hotter stuff will eventually also peen the frame "ears" where the toggle knobs cam up to unlock the action. The Luger has one of the strongest lock breech designs ever made, I agree there too. All I am saying is I chose not to fire ammo in the guns when they work perfectly fine with std and even NEW factory replacement springs. You can go on and on and tell me they were designed for hotter ammo, I dont disagree with you, but I simply choose shoot std pressure stuff in mine and my reworks and if I they work for me, what does anybody else care, I am a caretaker of these fine weapons and I just dont see hitting them harder than necessary to make them function. This is my last post on the subject and I respect and APPRECIATE all others that posted especially those that dont agree with me! That is fine and I hope we end this thread friends! I like all here and enjoy the debates. This one for me is finished! Thor

Ted,

I agree with you completely. My point was that this thread started with a complaint on function and the ammo was questioned. Then came the question if exceeding the chamber pressure as defined by international standards. My point was the "standard" is aimed at keeping any gun from blowing and does not consider the strongest of actions such as the Luger.


Thanks for your input.

Wow! What a great discussion. I've really enjoyed it and learned a lot! As an aside, I checked Wolff's on-line catalogue, and they indicate the Luger recoil spring factory spec is #38. They sell a #40 spring, which they call extra strong, a #38, and a #36.


Thor, I think you must be right that the hottest readily-available factory ammo is Winchester. After 3 mos. of experimentation, I've learned I get best results from Winchester, and I can get the 115 gr FMJ for $5 for 50, which is also the most economical.


Of my two artillerys, one holds open 99.99% of the time with the Winchester ammo; the second about 90%. Do you guys think it'd be worth my while to shorten the spring on #2 or install #36 from Wolff? (My inclination is to keep original spring intact; guns are matching and appear all original.)


Thanks!

[Thor]

Shoot the Winchester ammo, leave the spring intact and be happy! I find the std spring almost too much. I did install a 36# in Doks Luger and think it will handle just about any ammo fine! Thor

Ted, how's this for a solution. The artillery in question holds open fine with Winchester 90% of the time. As a newbie, I'm not sure I'm up to installing a 36# from Wolff's. Since the arty. is already on your waiting list, how about I ask you to swap out springs while you've got her on the rack?

[Thor]

That is probably a good idea, that artillery has a lot of mass to move backwards and I dont belive as strong a spring is need for the rearward movement anyway! I will test fire it, but you need to remind me when the times comes to finish it, so I can make sure everything is cool! Thor