What's going on?

[Roadkill]

Went out again this morning to try out some of my new hobby products, was shooting Speer lead round nose 125g with 4.7g of unique with CCI primers in a P1. Very very good. Next load was Speer 124g fmj
with 4.9g unique, CCI primers. They were so weak the slide didn't lock back several times. The 125g would throw the casings six feet further than the 124g. Anemic. The 115g with 4.1 were better. Weak, but at least they worked. All were very accurate. I'm loading 50 at a time, very carefully, just don't know what's going on.

RK

[Heinz]

RK . My own experience with Unique has been in .44 and .45 cases. I did observe when pressures are low unique seems to get erratic. These were big volume cases and I got a lot of vertical stringing in the 44 mag and 45 Colt. Function in the auto was erratic. An equivalent velocity load of Red Dot functioned fine. I did not have a chronometer so I was using the Speer loading manual for velocity estimates. I am a fan of Unique but in medium to heavy loads.

A hotter prime might cure the problem but you need to back of on the load to try that. Hot primers can have suprising results. Try the Red Dot.

[Doubs]

RK, 4.9 grains of Unique just won't cut it. My "standard" Unique load is 6.0 grains as written up by Maj. George Nonte many years ago. It works my Lugers to perfection. If that seems a bit heavy for you, try 5.5 grains and work up in .2 grain stages but don't exceed 6.0 grains. With a 124 or 125 grain bullet, use an over all cartridge length of 1.145 - 1.150".

If you have an expander die, flare the case mouth just enough that you can start a bullet without the case scraping the side as you seat it.

If you have a taper crimp die, seat your bullet to the proper depth FIRST without crimping. Then adjust your crimping die to just squeeze the case mouth against the bullet without swaging the bullet diameter. (If you have a combination seating and crimping die, be sure you back the seating stem out to compensate for adjusting the die further down to crimp. Otherwise, you'll seat the bullet deeper... an easy mistake to make if you're not careful.) Never roll crimp a Luger case as the headspace is set by the case mouth contacting the front of the chamber. A roll crimp die can be used if that's all you have but care must be taken not to take the case mouth to the point where it begins to roll inward against the bullet.

Another load to try is 5.3 grains of WW-231. It meters well and fills the case enough to prevent a double charge. It's worked well for me.

Hope this helps.

[Lonnie Zimmerman]

RK; I assume your lead bullet was 1 thousanths over sized, thus creating a better seal in the barrel, thus creating higher pressure? Your load is underpowered with Unique. I use 6gr.
Lonnie

[Thor]

5.5-6.0 gr Unique with 124 gr bullets

[unspellable]

Operating pressures in either Luger cartridge should be high enough to make Unique burn smoothly. In magnum revolvers I view it as suitable for midrange loads, too fast for max velocity loads. A little off topic, but I have used 10.4 grains of Unique with a 245 grain cast bullet for years as a midrange load in the 44 magnum.

I would not use magnum primers in the small Luger cases.

Winchester 231 will work well in a good load but it can go over max pressure rather quickly if you putin a tad too much. It's too fast to reach maximum velocity in the 7.65 without going over SAAMI limits. Seems to be better in the 9 mm.

[Hugh]

I use 6.0 gr Unique with both 124 gr cast and jacketed bullets, and 6.3 gr with 115 gr jacketed bullets. An excellent load is 8.0 gr Blue Dot with any of the above bullets. These are maximum loads.

Pressures will run slightly higher with lead bullets as opposed to jacketed bullets due to better obturation of the softer lead bullet in the bore. This could cause the action to work with the lead bullets and not the jacketed bullets in the same load when the loading is marginal for operating pressure.

[unspellable]

Generally for a given powder charge and bullet weight, a lead bullet will produce less pressure than a jacketed bullet simply because it is easier to push soft lead into the barrel than a copper or steel jacket. A consequence is that the max powder charge for the lead bullet is usually a little higher than for the jacketed bullet provided we are not getting into areas where we have leading problems.

The Luger is a recoil operated arm. The cartridge impulse is the figure of merit for operating the action. Pressure is totally irrelevant as far as operating the action is concerned.

Pressure is the figure of merit for operating a blowback action. The pressure curve becomes significant in operating a gas operated action since the gas is bled off through a port at some distance from the chamber.

[Roadkill]

Thanks All, experience is relevant. I'll boost it up, I measure every five loads on the scale to be sure its stll right. I'm still too new at this not to be careful. Finally learned how to quit bending decapping pins, crushing brass, and putting primers in backwards. Somehow its just different shooting rounds you have loaded yourself.

rk <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

[Doubs]

[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill:
<strong> Finally learned how to quit bending decapping pins, crushing brass, and putting primers in backwards. rk <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

RK, I don't know if you're using a progressive or single stage press but if the latter, I STRONGLY suggest getting a Lee Auto-Prime tool or the RCBS equivalent. I have two Auto-Prime tools. I use one for small and one for large primers. IMO, they're worth their weight in gold and pretty inexpensive too. The Luger case holder for the Auto-Prime is a number 6.

[Roadkill]

Thanks again. Give me a little time, ya'll been at this for years. I'm still just figuring out what some of the neat little tools are used for.

RK