Hugh's Rebarrel .30

Doubs · 09-10-2002, 12:12 AM

Yesterday I set off to the range with four pistols and a can of assorted ammo. The guns included my P-1 Walther 9mm, an E. German rework 9mm, an Erfurt Commercial .30 Luger and my E. German rework that Hugh Clark installed a 6" .30 barrel on a little while back.

I had various lots of .30 Luger loads that I'd made over a period of years and I wanted to dispose of them and reload the cases. The new 6 inch barrel has a tighter chamber and bore than the Erfurt so some loads I'd made for my German barreled guns would only work in the Erfurt which loved everything I fed it.... 100% reliability.

The one load I had hopes for in the 6 inch barrel gave me the only jam I had all day. It was the Hornady 85 grain JHP that I'd swaged from .312" to .308". However, the 90 grain Sierra JHC with an exposed lead tip that I'd swaged down to .309" fed perfectly and the attached picture shows a 12 shot group I fired at 21 yards. I was sitting on a bench but otherwise unsupported. I used two hands to hold the pistol. The load was 7.5 grains of AA #7. The extreme spread C-C is 2 5/16" with the cluster of 10 in 1 1/2 inches.

Needless to say, I'm happy with the barrel Hugh installed!

Roadkill · 09-10-2002, 11:26 AM

Nice, ain't it? [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

RK

Hugh · 09-10-2002, 04:03 PM

Hey Doubs,

When you gonna try some of those 60 gr Gold Dot's or XTP's resized to .309? [img]wink.gif[/img]

unspellable · 09-10-2002, 05:10 PM

Before you guys start squeezing bullets, measure the bore. The DWM 7.65 mm barrel factory specs for the groove diameter is:

Minumum: 7.87 mm or 0.309843 inch
Nominal: 7.90 mm or 0.311024 inch
Maximum: 7.91 mm or 0.311417 inch

I've been collecting measurements and so far they run pretty true to DWM factory specs. This includes barrels in Rugers, Colts, etc.

It AIN'T supposed to take a 0.308 bullet!! For a nominal bore it should be a 0.311 inch bullet.

Doubs · 09-10-2002, 05:11 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Hugh:
<strong>Hey Doubs, When you gonna try some of those 60 gr Gold Dot's or XTP's resized to .309? [img]wink.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote>

Hi Hugh! I thought others might like to see how well your replacement barrel shoots. I sure like it! The 60 grain HP's are on my short list of things to do. I have a box of them on the shelf and I'll be loading them before long. Should be interesting.

Rick W., sorry if I wasn't clear about the bullets I used. Both the 85 grain Hornady XTP JHP and the Sierra 90 grain JHC with exposed lead tip are their current offerings. When I swage the Sierra bullet to a smaller diameter, I use a #311 top punch (round nose) which changes the bullet's contour from a well-defined flat nose to a more contoured ogive but still retaining the same - or very close to the same - cavity opening. I'll try to add a small picture this evening that shows a before and after bullet.

The bullet I really liked in the .30 Luger was Hornady's 85 grain XTP HP with the exposed lead tip. It's what my brother shot the groundhog with and it was, IMO, more explosive than the current fully jacketed HP that I shot some of Sunday afternoon.

Newer .30 Luger barrels seem to be made using .308 inch groove diameters and the chambers are tighter than older German-made barrels. Reducing the neck thickness of factory brass to .008" by outside turning allows me to use the .312" bullets right out of the box in the older "commercial" DWM & Erfurt pistols. Newer chambers require swaging of the bullets to properly fit and still have the expansion clearance necessary for the bullet to be released without raising pressures. The only way to know is to check each gun's chamber to see what will work. I hope this information is more clear than what I wrote before.

Thor · 09-10-2002, 06:08 PM

I now have a bullet and will probably try some of Hornady 71 gr .311" if my bullet mikes out to around there.

Doubs · 09-10-2002, 09:23 PM

Here is a picture of the various bullets I use in my .30 Lugers. Left-to-right, they are:

60 grain .312" Hornady XTP HP. I haven't actually shot any of these yet and I want to review Hugh's loading data that he gave in an earlier post. The 60 grain bullet can be pushed to exceptional velocities if desired.

86 grain .308" soft point. I bought these from Midway as "seconds" but they seem to shoot just fine. They're in a white box but I suspect they're Hornady bullets.

85 grain Hornady .312" XTP HP. This is the bullet that replaced their 85 grain exposed lead HP some years back. It's worked fine in my DWM and Erfurt commercial pistols but gave me a single jam in my 6" rebarreled pistol. I swage these to suit.

75 grain RCBS roundnose cast bullet. It said it was an 85 grain bullet on the box so I wrote to RCBS and they replaced the mold with one of the correct weight. They told me to keep the 75 grain mold. Great people to do business with.

My own design custom mold bullet of 95 grains. The mold was made by NEI and it's excellent. It feeds reliably and is accurate.

The 85 grain RCBS replacement mold bullet.

90 grain Sierra .312" "Powermaster" JHC with an exposed lead tip.

90 grain Sierra .312" "Powermaster" JHC bullet after being swaged to .309" using a #311 top punch to form the nose.

A cartridge loaded in 1994 using the .312" Sierra bullet above but without swaging or reforming the nose. This load works fine in the Erfurt. The case is a factory Winchester-Western and the load is 8.5 grains of Accurate Arms #7.

09-10-2002, 12:12 AM	#1
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Hugh's Rebarrel .30 Yesterday I set off to the range with four pistols and a can of assorted ammo. The guns included my P-1 Walther 9mm, an E. German rework 9mm, an Erfurt Commercial .30 Luger and my E. German rework that Hugh Clark installed a 6" .30 barrel on a little while back. I had various lots of .30 Luger loads that I'd made over a period of years and I wanted to dispose of them and reload the cases. The new 6 inch barrel has a tighter chamber and bore than the Erfurt so some loads I'd made for my German barreled guns would only work in the Erfurt which loved everything I fed it.... 100% reliability. The one load I had hopes for in the 6 inch barrel gave me the only jam I had all day. It was the Hornady 85 grain JHP that I'd swaged from .312" to .308". However, the 90 grain Sierra JHC with an exposed lead tip that I'd swaged down to .309" fed perfectly and the attached picture shows a 12 shot group I fired at 21 yards. I was sitting on a bench but otherwise unsupported. I used two hands to hold the pistol. The load was 7.5 grains of AA #7. The extreme spread C-C is 2 5/16" with the cluster of 10 in 1 1/2 inches. Needless to say, I'm happy with the barrel Hugh installed!

09-10-2002, 06:08 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I now have a bullet and will probably try some of Hornady 71 gr .311" if my bullet mikes out to around there. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

09-10-2002, 11:26 AM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Nice, ain't it? [img]biggrin.gif[/img] RK

09-10-2002, 04:03 PM	#3
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Hey Doubs, When you gonna try some of those 60 gr Gold Dot's or XTP's resized to .309? [img]wink.gif[/img] __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

09-10-2002, 05:10 PM	#4
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Before you guys start squeezing bullets, measure the bore. The DWM 7.65 mm barrel factory specs for the groove diameter is: Minumum: 7.87 mm or 0.309843 inch Nominal: 7.90 mm or 0.311024 inch Maximum: 7.91 mm or 0.311417 inch I've been collecting measurements and so far they run pretty true to DWM factory specs. This includes barrels in Rugers, Colts, etc. It AIN'T supposed to take a 0.308 bullet!! For a nominal bore it should be a 0.311 inch bullet.

09-10-2002, 05:11 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Hugh: <strong>Hey Doubs, When you gonna try some of those 60 gr Gold Dot's or XTP's resized to .309? [img]wink.gif[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote> Hi Hugh! I thought others might like to see how well your replacement barrel shoots. I sure like it! The 60 grain HP's are on my short list of things to do. I have a box of them on the shelf and I'll be loading them before long. Should be interesting. Rick W., sorry if I wasn't clear about the bullets I used. Both the 85 grain Hornady XTP JHP and the Sierra 90 grain JHC with exposed lead tip are their current offerings. When I swage the Sierra bullet to a smaller diameter, I use a #311 top punch (round nose) which changes the bullet's contour from a well-defined flat nose to a more contoured ogive but still retaining the same - or very close to the same - cavity opening. I'll try to add a small picture this evening that shows a before and after bullet. The bullet I really liked in the .30 Luger was Hornady's 85 grain XTP HP with the exposed lead tip. It's what my brother shot the groundhog with and it was, IMO, more explosive than the current fully jacketed HP that I shot some of Sunday afternoon. Newer .30 Luger barrels seem to be made using .308 inch groove diameters and the chambers are tighter than older German-made barrels. Reducing the neck thickness of factory brass to .008" by outside turning allows me to use the .312" bullets right out of the box in the older "commercial" DWM & Erfurt pistols. Newer chambers require swaging of the bullets to properly fit and still have the expansion clearance necessary for the bullet to be released without raising pressures. The only way to know is to check each gun's chamber to see what will work. I hope this information is more clear than what I wrote before.

09-10-2002, 09:23 PM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Here is a picture of the various bullets I use in my .30 Lugers. Left-to-right, they are: 60 grain .312" Hornady XTP HP. I haven't actually shot any of these yet and I want to review Hugh's loading data that he gave in an earlier post. The 60 grain bullet can be pushed to exceptional velocities if desired. 86 grain .308" soft point. I bought these from Midway as "seconds" but they seem to shoot just fine. They're in a white box but I suspect they're Hornady bullets. 85 grain Hornady .312" XTP HP. This is the bullet that replaced their 85 grain exposed lead HP some years back. It's worked fine in my DWM and Erfurt commercial pistols but gave me a single jam in my 6" rebarreled pistol. I swage these to suit. 75 grain RCBS roundnose cast bullet. It said it was an 85 grain bullet on the box so I wrote to RCBS and they replaced the mold with one of the correct weight. They told me to keep the 75 grain mold. Great people to do business with. My own design custom mold bullet of 95 grains. The mold was made by NEI and it's excellent. It feeds reliably and is accurate. The 85 grain RCBS replacement mold bullet. 90 grain Sierra .312" "Powermaster" JHC with an exposed lead tip. 90 grain Sierra .312" "Powermaster" JHC bullet after being swaged to .309" using a #311 top punch to form the nose. A cartridge loaded in 1994 using the .312" Sierra bullet above but without swaging or reforming the nose. This load works fine in the Erfurt. The case is a factory Winchester-Western and the load is 8.5 grains of Accurate Arms #7.