Some Comments & Questions on Ammo, Chapter 2

jim haycraft · 09-04-2002, 03:52 PM

My original contribution on the subject generated far more responses than I (or perhaps, anyone else) expected). All were interesting and the discussion eventually evolved into a lively discourse on reliability - Luger vs Colt's 1911 .45, among other things. My problems, presented at length, involved a failure rate of about 17%, comprising 'stove-pipng' and failures to eject properly, but for the first shooting outing in 50 years, I was nevertheless pleased with the performance of my 1940 P.08. I put forth the possibility that the UMC ammo I was using, being about 2mm shorter than the desired 29.6 mm, was perhaps the culprit, and got a general agreement on this. Advised by many to get some 'cheap' Walmart 9 mm, I did make an attempt, but for some unaccountable reason, my local store was out of stock! I settled for the local gun shop's Winchester 124 gr. NATO and a box of PMC brand (made in S.Korea) and a little cheaper than the Winchester. Fired all 50 of the Winchester and 25 rounds of the PMC stuff, with nary a problem! Both brand's cartridges were right on the money as to length and functioned smoothly. I also unloaded 50 rounds through my 1911 WWII vintage Colt, again without incident, except for a blood-blister that developed on the web between my right thumb and forefinger; something was whacking me at each shot, but I was having too much fun to notice until after. I will eventually get some of the Walmart stuff and we shall see how that behaves. Thus, the comments; no questions this time! End of Chapter 2!

Doubs · 09-04-2002, 05:15 PM

[quote]Originally posted by jim haycraft:
<strong> I also unloaded 50 rounds through my 1911 WWII vintage Colt, again without incident, except for a blood-blister that developed on the web between my right thumb and forefinger; something was whacking me at each shot, but I was having too much fun to notice until after.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jim, you have suffered the wounds that come from holding the 1911/1911A1 too high on the grip. The beefy part of your hand's web rolls over the tang and is pinched by the hammer spur during recoil. Lowering your grip just a fraction of an inch will prevent it happening again. One of the modifications of the 1911 to the 1911A1 configuration was making the grip tang longer to lessen the possibility of pinching the web. Although it's difficult to see now, my right hand carries a scar where the hammer of my 1927 Argentine got me when I first bought it.

unspellable · 09-04-2002, 09:42 PM

The first time I fired a broomhandle with a shoulder stock I made the mistake of holding my thumb over the top of the stock as one would with a rifle. That hammer moves fast and it's hard! made a real goose egg on my thumb.

Roadkill · 09-04-2002, 10:08 PM

Gentlemen, I believe you have discovered an until now additional excellent feature of Herr Georg's marvellous firearm. You can't get your hand pinched with a Luger. I mean a put together top and bottom with all the parts gun, not just firing the cannon assembly as one who will remain unnamed was doing.
The worst I have ever fired was a Beretta Mod 34. Blood was dripping off my palm after five shots.
RK

Dwight Gruber · 09-05-2002, 03:23 AM

The serrations on the hammer of a Radom are extremely sharp. The hammer won't pinch you, but it will strike and abrade the web of your thumb pretty good.

--Dwight

Johnny Peppers · 09-05-2002, 09:46 AM

When the Model 1911 came out it had a short stubby hammer which did not bite. In 1914 the Ordnance Dept. decided the hammer spur was not long enough and the hammer spur was lengthened. With the short horn on the grip safety and the long spur on the trigger, the hammer came back over the grip safety and pinched the web of the hand during recoil. The hammer bite was a complaint from the field immediately after the change was made, and in true government fashion was not changed until 1924 when the grip safety was modified with a longer horn. John Browning had it right, but the Ordnance Dept. felt obliged to improve on his design with predictable results.

09-04-2002, 03:52 PM	#1
jim haycraft User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 20 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some Comments & Questions on Ammo, Chapter 2 My original contribution on the subject generated far more responses than I (or perhaps, anyone else) expected). All were interesting and the discussion eventually evolved into a lively discourse on reliability - Luger vs Colt's 1911 .45, among other things. My problems, presented at length, involved a failure rate of about 17%, comprising 'stove-pipng' and failures to eject properly, but for the first shooting outing in 50 years, I was nevertheless pleased with the performance of my 1940 P.08. I put forth the possibility that the UMC ammo I was using, being about 2mm shorter than the desired 29.6 mm, was perhaps the culprit, and got a general agreement on this. Advised by many to get some 'cheap' Walmart 9 mm, I did make an attempt, but for some unaccountable reason, my local store was out of stock! I settled for the local gun shop's Winchester 124 gr. NATO and a box of PMC brand (made in S.Korea) and a little cheaper than the Winchester. Fired all 50 of the Winchester and 25 rounds of the PMC stuff, with nary a problem! Both brand's cartridges were right on the money as to length and functioned smoothly. I also unloaded 50 rounds through my 1911 WWII vintage Colt, again without incident, except for a blood-blister that developed on the web between my right thumb and forefinger; something was whacking me at each shot, but I was having too much fun to notice until after. I will eventually get some of the Walmart stuff and we shall see how that behaves. Thus, the comments; no questions this time! End of Chapter 2!

09-04-2002, 05:15 PM	#2
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by jim haycraft: <strong> I also unloaded 50 rounds through my 1911 WWII vintage Colt, again without incident, except for a blood-blister that developed on the web between my right thumb and forefinger; something was whacking me at each shot, but I was having too much fun to notice until after.</strong><hr></blockquote> Jim, you have suffered the wounds that come from holding the 1911/1911A1 too high on the grip. The beefy part of your hand's web rolls over the tang and is pinched by the hammer spur during recoil. Lowering your grip just a fraction of an inch will prevent it happening again. One of the modifications of the 1911 to the 1911A1 configuration was making the grip tang longer to lessen the possibility of pinching the web. Although it's difficult to see now, my right hand carries a scar where the hammer of my 1927 Argentine got me when I first bought it.

09-04-2002, 09:42 PM	#3
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	The first time I fired a broomhandle with a shoulder stock I made the mistake of holding my thumb over the top of the stock as one would with a rifle. That hammer moves fast and it's hard! made a real goose egg on my thumb.

09-04-2002, 10:08 PM	#4
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Gentlemen, I believe you have discovered an until now additional excellent feature of Herr Georg's marvellous firearm. You can't get your hand pinched with a Luger. I mean a put together top and bottom with all the parts gun, not just firing the cannon assembly as one who will remain unnamed was doing. The worst I have ever fired was a Beretta Mod 34. Blood was dripping off my palm after five shots. RK

09-05-2002, 03:23 AM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	The serrations on the hammer of a Radom are extremely sharp. The hammer won't pinch you, but it will strike and abrade the web of your thumb pretty good. --Dwight

09-05-2002, 09:46 AM	#6
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	When the Model 1911 came out it had a short stubby hammer which did not bite. In 1914 the Ordnance Dept. decided the hammer spur was not long enough and the hammer spur was lengthened. With the short horn on the grip safety and the long spur on the trigger, the hammer came back over the grip safety and pinched the web of the hand during recoil. The hammer bite was a complaint from the field immediately after the change was made, and in true government fashion was not changed until 1924 when the grip safety was modified with a longer horn. John Browning had it right, but the Ordnance Dept. felt obliged to improve on his design with predictable results.