Luger rifles ?

[ichabod]

I've been wanting to ask ya'll this for awhile - how many Luger rifles were produced ? Did any survive and can anyone post a pic ?

[Edward Tinker]

I don't know numbers on Luger Carbines, I will try and look them up later if no one posts> Then I can give you an approximate of how many were produced (Luger Carbines) survived in far greater numbers than Lugers, because they weren't used for war...

And as in newer 45 pistols, there have been many fakes, copies and fun guns made to resenmble carbines.

[Ron Wood]

Ed,
I believe that ichabod is referring to actual Luger rifles and not carbines. Luger patented a rifle action and they went into some production. There are photos of Luger, his son and some shooting companions posing with Luger pistols and rifles. I am busy packing for a move, but I will try to find references with the pictures. I am not sure, but I think the Dutch Luger book has some.

[Edward Tinker]

Ohhhhhh, Ron, I'll try and look it up, just "happen" to have Dutch Lugers next to me!

Ed

[Ron Wood]

Look at the picture on the back of the dust jacket! On page 8 there is a picture of the action, and on page 10 the dust jacket picture is shown. In the text on page 10 it says that the serial number of the action is 356. Other than the statement about "limited production" there is no indication of total number produced.

[Edward Tinker]

Got it right in front of me, ahhhhh, just a minute, let me scan it in.....

[Ron Wood]

Thank you, kind Sir..

[Edward Tinker]

And here is the patent drawing from the Luger Book, a good book with nice pictures.

[Dwight Gruber]

So, are these just conventional reciprocating-bolt actions, no toggles?

On a related topic, I seem to recall a toggle-action semi-auto modification to the Springfield rifle. Its been a long time, so I don't recall if this was the Pederson device or another idea, I just remember seeing pictures of it the first time I was a gun collector, many years ago.

--Dwight

[Roadkill]

One looks similar to the 1888 Commission rifle, the patent is for a bolt hold open device after magazine is empty. Except for the carbines the others look like Mod 98s.What are those small pot looking containers at their feet?

rk

[ichabod]

Ed & Ron, heck ! I didn't mean to put ya'll to work ! Thank you, Ed, thanks for scanning those pics. I wonder why the Luger rifle was never produced as some kind of commercial arm ? A 9mm semi-auto karabiner on the WW1 battlefield would have surely been a devil ! Was there any military procurement or evaluation of the arm ? Roadkill, I see that Gew88 just to the left of the seated chap on the far right (who looks to be cradling a saddle-ring Mauser karabiner - could be an engineer carbine but lack of bayonet lug suggests cavalry use). It looks as the Gew88 is in the old .318 "J" bore since it apparently was still utilizing Mannlicher clips. What are those three little "spitoons" out in front ? Ed, again, "Thank You" for scanning the pics and thanks to all of you P.08 experts who have entertained my less-than-enlightened queries with patience and kindness - there are sure a lot of nice folks on this board [img]smile.gif[/img] . Ron, good luck with your move and if you're moving to Oklahoma bring me some good menudo, preferably from that little Mexican flea market northeast of William Beaumont Army Medical Center and across the road from KFC.

[Ron Wood]

Dwayne,

I would love to bring you some menudo, but I'm not moving that far. Just about 10 miles into New Mexico. Going to build a smaller house with a bigger workshop and gun room vault. Maybe we can say howdy the next time I go to the Tulsa gun show (Wannenmachers).

I'm guessing those "spitoons" (that's what they looked like to me too) are shooting trophys.

Somewhere I have a picture of a toggle action machine gun that was a prototype design presumably to be mounted on an aircraft. The toggle worked on the left side of the action rather than on top. I'll be darned if I can find it right now, but I will keep on looking as time permits. Maybe someone else on the forum is familiar with this weapon and can post a picture.

The closest thing to a semi-automatic 9mm karabiner (Luger style) that made it on to the battlefield was the LP08 artillery Luger with the snail drum "trommelmagazin". I would think it was more of a "last ditch" weapon rather than a formidable assault piece.

[Ron Wood]

Thank you Rick, that's the critter! As I recall it was a Swiss prototype. Maybe it is in Bobba's book?

[Imperial Arms]

For you information, the unique Luger Rifle serial #4 which you are trying to define/describe was made around 1906-10 if my memory serves me correctly. I believe that there is a section in Walters book about Lugers showing a line drawing of this rifle and its toggle action.

This rifle used to belong to Mr. Samual Cummings of Interarms and it was first auctioned by Christie's Auctions, London in 1996 for $250k. About two years ago, the same rifle was auctioned by Butterfields and it only fetched $125k.

I had to opportunity to examine and photograph this rifle in 1996 before it entered the auction and Mr. Cummings told me that it was handed into Interarms during the amnesty period in the UK. In trade for this Luger rifle, and a very rare Mauser test rifle, Mr. Cummings gave the man five shotguns which were legal to own in the UK - what a steal!

Unfortunately, I do not have access to my photos at the moment showing this rifle, but I shall try to find additional information.

Albert

[ichabod]

Ron, guess I'll have to keep eating "Juanita" brand out of the can. I've never been to Wannemacher's but a friend has threatened to drag me there - is that the multi-level show ? Rick, thanks for the pic. Is the wooden handle deally-bobber a swivel mount ? The stock on that rascal reminds me of a fine European sporter.