Zeppelins

Vlim · 08-10-2005, 02:03 PM

Hi,

Kinda abused the forum's photo upload facility to show some pictures from a 1936 book on airships on a local forum which doesn't have upload facilities. (sorry John D.

).

Might as well show them here as well.

The book is called 'Auf Luftpatrouille und Weltfahrt' and was written by Ernst A. Lehmann, who was an airship captain between 1909 and 1937.

Lehmann was on board of the Hindenburg on may 6th, 1937 as a supervising captain when it caught fire during the landing in Lakehurst. He survived the disaster, badly burned and died in hospital some 20 hours later.

The inside of an airship, during the inflating of the actual internal gas balloons.

Taken during WW1, a row of bombs ready for action inside a Zeppelin.

I wonder if any lugers were issued to Zeppelin crew and if they were marked that way...

Ron Wood · 08-10-2005, 02:35 PM

I like the caption "the elephant in the air ship"! Sure would be nice to find a Zeppelin marked Luger. Those big airships have always fascinated me, kind of like a luxury liner in the sky.

Dwight Gruber · 08-10-2005, 03:13 PM

If you do a search here on zeppelin/zeppelein you will run across notice of Tom Armstrong's Navy Zeppelin marked pieces. Noll's book has several L entries for Luftschiff marks, these however are observation balloons. Iirc, Charlie Justman a while back had a Zeppelin-marked mismatch for sale, don't remember the marking though.

--Dwight

mauro · 08-10-2005, 04:49 PM

Hello Gerben,
Very interesting.
The Luger Artilleries were used by the German aircraft crew before that the first machine gun were installed on the aircraft.
It is possible to assume that also the Zeppelin crew use this kind of pistol, smaller than a carbine and semi-automatic.
Ciao
Mauro

Edward Tinker · 08-10-2005, 05:12 PM

I like Zeppelen's, always thought they were cool, great pictures.

Ed

Ron Smith · 08-10-2005, 11:11 PM

Cool Gerben,

I spent 2 months building a 28" model of one from scratch when I was about 14. Came home from school one day, and my dog had chewed it to splinters. Wonder if the Germans had this problem?

Ron

Vlim · 08-11-2005, 02:56 AM

Hi Ron,

I guess it would take them German shepards a bit longer to chew up one of the big ones

DWM did construct zeppeling mounting platforms for the Maxim machinegun. I have documentation about that. Will do a search on the forum. These big airships must've had at least some arsenal on board, like the average ship had.

Navy · 08-11-2005, 07:22 AM

There are photos of my Naval marked Zepp holster in Anthony Vanderlinden's new book on holsters and shoulderstocks.

FWIW, the book is certainly a *must have* as it documents many holsters that were not previously in works such as Bender and at <$50, it is a bargain.

Tom A

John Sabato · 08-11-2005, 09:49 AM

So where can this book be found Tom? ISBN? Website?

Thanks.

Navy · 08-11-2005, 10:19 AM

Keoki has copies for sale; contact him.
FWIW, he and I supplied about 50% of the Luger holsters depicted; the persian rig that is on the cover is one I purchased from a forum member.

Tom A.

Vlim · 08-11-2005, 01:18 PM

Hi,

As can be seen in one of the above illustrations, the Zeppelins are referred to as LZ<3-digit number> like the above-mentioned LZ126.

Are the pistol/holster markings similar?

Navy · 08-11-2005, 01:25 PM

Mine is marked on the rear L Anchor F, which the noted Luger holster expert identified as meaning Luft (Naval) Flotte.

Tom A.

Vlim · 08-11-2005, 02:16 PM

Some minor additions, but not unimportant ones were added to the initial post.

I completely overlooked the fact that Captain Lehmann was on board of the Hindenburg when it perished in flames at Lakehurst in 1937. Lehmann died 20 hours after the crash.

The book was republished shortly after his death, with an extra chapter added that described the disaster and Lehmann's demise. The person who republished the book, Leonhard Adelt was a good friend of Lehmann and also a passenger on the Hindenburg that day. Adelt and his wife survived the disaster, although seriously wounded.

Vlim · 08-14-2005, 11:19 AM

Tac,

No prob. It was entertaining to read that finding targets during WW1 was somewhat difficult. One of the Zeppelin commanders had to learn from a Dutch newspaper what town he actually bombed....

The LZ126 being 'gassed up' in the first image was sold to the US and became known as the "Los Angeles".

Something I found in the book:
It's a photo of the crew mess on board of the "Graf Zeppelin". Notice that thing hanging on a hook behind the coat. Almost tempting to see a holster in that shape. Might just be some kind of bag, but still...

unspellable · 09-01-2005, 12:46 PM

The germans used two different makes of airships as bombers during WWI. One of which was, of course, Zeppelin. I don't have the name of their competitors in front of me, but do remember they used some wood in the frame as opposed to the all metal Zeppelin frame. But given two makes, wouldn't any Lugers or such be marked as airship service rather than Zeppelin sevice?

Vlim · 09-01-2005, 12:58 PM

You're right.

The Zeppelin was just one of them and the Germans didn't use the Zeppelin LZ designation but simply L or LS with a digit.

The airships with a solid wooden frame were those of the Schuette-Lanz system.

Ron Wood · 09-01-2005, 01:21 PM

Gerben,
You come up with the greatest photos. Unfortunately, I would guess that the object behind the coat is a map case rather than a holster, but it was a fun thought for a moment. Sure would like to have that coat!

08-10-2005, 02:03 PM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Zeppelins Hi, Kinda abused the forum's photo upload facility to show some pictures from a 1936 book on airships on a local forum which doesn't have upload facilities. (sorry John D. ). Might as well show them here as well. The book is called 'Auf Luftpatrouille und Weltfahrt' and was written by Ernst A. Lehmann, who was an airship captain between 1909 and 1937. Lehmann was on board of the Hindenburg on may 6th, 1937 as a supervising captain when it caught fire during the landing in Lakehurst. He survived the disaster, badly burned and died in hospital some 20 hours later. The inside of an airship, during the inflating of the actual internal gas balloons. Taken during WW1, a row of bombs ready for action inside a Zeppelin. I wonder if any lugers were issued to Zeppelin crew and if they were marked that way...

08-10-2005, 02:35 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	I like the caption "the elephant in the air ship"! Sure would be nice to find a Zeppelin marked Luger. Those big airships have always fascinated me, kind of like a luxury liner in the sky. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-10-2005, 04:49 PM	#4
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hello Gerben, Very interesting. The Luger Artilleries were used by the German aircraft crew before that the first machine gun were installed on the aircraft. It is possible to assume that also the Zeppelin crew use this kind of pistol, smaller than a carbine and semi-automatic. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

08-10-2005, 11:11 PM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Cool Gerben, I spent 2 months building a 28" model of one from scratch when I was about 14. Came home from school one day, and my dog had chewed it to splinters. Wonder if the Germans had this problem? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-11-2005, 09:49 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	So where can this book be found Tom? ISBN? Website? Thanks. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-10-2005, 03:13 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	If you do a search here on zeppelin/zeppelein you will run across notice of Tom Armstrong's Navy Zeppelin marked pieces. Noll's book has several L entries for Luftschiff marks, these however are observation balloons. Iirc, Charlie Justman a while back had a Zeppelin-marked mismatch for sale, don't remember the marking though. --Dwight

08-10-2005, 05:12 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	I like Zeppelen's, always thought they were cool, great pictures. Ed

08-11-2005, 02:56 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi Ron, I guess it would take them German shepards a bit longer to chew up one of the big ones DWM did construct zeppeling mounting platforms for the Maxim machinegun. I have documentation about that. Will do a search on the forum. These big airships must've had at least some arsenal on board, like the average ship had.

08-11-2005, 07:22 AM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	There are photos of my Naval marked Zepp holster in Anthony Vanderlinden's new book on holsters and shoulderstocks. FWIW, the book is certainly a must have as it documents many holsters that were not previously in works such as Bender and at <$50, it is a bargain. Tom A

08-11-2005, 10:19 AM	#10
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Keoki has copies for sale; contact him. FWIW, he and I supplied about 50% of the Luger holsters depicted; the persian rig that is on the cover is one I purchased from a forum member. Tom A.

08-11-2005, 01:18 PM	#11
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi, As can be seen in one of the above illustrations, the Zeppelins are referred to as LZ<3-digit number> like the above-mentioned LZ126. Are the pistol/holster markings similar?

08-11-2005, 01:25 PM	#12
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Mine is marked on the rear L Anchor F, which the noted Luger holster expert identified as meaning Luft (Naval) Flotte. Tom A.

08-11-2005, 02:16 PM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Some minor additions, but not unimportant ones were added to the initial post. I completely overlooked the fact that Captain Lehmann was on board of the Hindenburg when it perished in flames at Lakehurst in 1937. Lehmann died 20 hours after the crash. The book was republished shortly after his death, with an extra chapter added that described the disaster and Lehmann's demise. The person who republished the book, Leonhard Adelt was a good friend of Lehmann and also a passenger on the Hindenburg that day. Adelt and his wife survived the disaster, although seriously wounded.

08-14-2005, 11:19 AM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Tac, No prob. It was entertaining to read that finding targets during WW1 was somewhat difficult. One of the Zeppelin commanders had to learn from a Dutch newspaper what town he actually bombed.... The LZ126 being 'gassed up' in the first image was sold to the US and became known as the "Los Angeles". Something I found in the book: It's a photo of the crew mess on board of the "Graf Zeppelin". Notice that thing hanging on a hook behind the coat. Almost tempting to see a holster in that shape. Might just be some kind of bag, but still...

09-01-2005, 12:46 PM	#15
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	The germans used two different makes of airships as bombers during WWI. One of which was, of course, Zeppelin. I don't have the name of their competitors in front of me, but do remember they used some wood in the frame as opposed to the all metal Zeppelin frame. But given two makes, wouldn't any Lugers or such be marked as airship service rather than Zeppelin sevice?

09-01-2005, 12:58 PM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,019 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	You're right. The Zeppelin was just one of them and the Germans didn't use the Zeppelin LZ designation but simply L or LS with a digit. The airships with a solid wooden frame were those of the Schuette-Lanz system.

09-01-2005, 01:21 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,987 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,090 Times in 1,675 Posts	Gerben, You come up with the greatest photos. Unfortunately, I would guess that the object behind the coat is a map case rather than a holster, but it was a fun thought for a moment. Sure would like to have that coat! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction