May God help us

[wterrell]

This is WAY off topic. Delete it if you must.

We have murdered Terri Schiavo. May God have mercy on us.

[policeluger]

Amen Wes, had I with held food and water from my dog, I would be arrested and fined, as I well should be.

[Luke]

Wes,

Agree.

Luke

[Michigan Gunner]

I have a problem with starving someone to death!



Agree !


MG

[Heinz]

Well, that's one. The next several million should be easy.

Well said Wes.

[lugerholsterrepair]

You Guys have obviously never observed anyone who is comatose and in active for 15 years. My Uncle was in this same position and after a few years he had shrunken up to half his size. Even if he had magically awakned he would have been locked in a body that was of no use. I wouldn't want to be a brain in a jar.

Just because we CAN keep someone technically alive dosen't mean we should.

Death is God's gift to us.

In a normal World the strong survive and the weak die. We have acted as a false God and created misery for many who should mercifully die.

Put yourself in her shoes.....isn't it better at some point to leave this plain of existance?

Death at a young healthy age is a tragedy, hers was mercifull.

Jerry Burney

[wterrell]

Jerry,

Your argument is well considered and I hope that my reply is equal in merit.

We must not look at another and decide that their plight is so pitiful that it is not worth continuing. Even the most wretched creature on earth will cling to life, no matter how miserable their existence, for he shall never pass this way again.

[policeluger]

Again Wes, amen......the Pope is being taken care of much the same way, should we pull his feeding tube, I hope not. Death is not a gift of God, eternal life is.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Wes, Neither of us can properly best the other here. Not till we have taken that path will we be the judge of what is right.
I can only speak for myself and I know when enough has been taken from me to make my life not worth living, I will want to die.

I say these things having taken degrees in Gerontology, thanatology, and sociology. I worked in many nursing homes where people are warehoused and nursed beyond their time to die naturally.

I remember working in a Veterans home long term care facility in Colorado. I was to transfer a very elderly patient from one room to another. As I picked him up, he weighed all of 60 pounds, he pissed all over me and would not stop from screaming in his weak voice...Kill me! Kill me! He was begging for mercy. We, would not, could not, give it.

And yet, we have mercy on dogs and put them out of their misery if they are in pain with no hope of recovery but humanity has not the kindness for ourselves.

Medical technology is a wonderfull thing. Medical ethics is a tough subject so we know of no other direction to go and that is forward. Save a life, no matter the cost or the pain and suffering of the patient.

Life is precious but conversly, so is death.

Jerry Burney

[Edward Tinker]

Wes, I don't think I agree, but starving anyone to death... jeeez. If it is decided they should be "put" down, well, then do it humanely...


But, I tell you what, I wouldn't want to be in mom/dads shoes, or the husbands... What a terrible tradgedy....


Ed

[G.W. Gill]

I have walked in Mr. Schiavo's shoes. I have changed diapers for more than half a decade on a Man of Pride. When his Wife, my Mother ( both Marines), said it was time to put him in a home I was proud of her love for my Father. I was proud of her.
I recieved a call from the Nursing Home as my " Marine Mom" and I were visiting Grand kids 300 miles away. I asked them to put the old Marine on hi flow o2, as I knew it would keep his oxegen drive going. Fifteen minutes after our arival he passed. I could have kept his body alive. Nobody that understands the word DIGNATY would let this go any farther. My Father, one of the Chosen Few, would concur. G. W. Gill
I do not think that this Terri situation should have been in the public arena. I am uncomfortalble with the legaslatuer getting involved. I blame the media.
If you disagree with me on this subject, let us both apoligise for stepping into a family's private tragedy. I would like to remind you as to who was holding the scrubby brush and the shower wand and hand washing a noble and loved human being. Was it you? Or a media affair that cought your attentention?

[wterrell]

I do not know that personal experience should qualify/disqualify a person to form an opinion upon death and its agents. But if it is requisite, a lifetime ago, to feed my family and myself while going to college, I worked at a University hospital as an orderly on evening shift. I have wiped many butts of terminally ill patients. Fed them. Dressed them. Laughed with them. These were long term patients with no hope of returning home. They became friends of mine. As part of my work duties I have sat in excess of 3 dozen death watches involving these friends and witnessed their very last breath, noting their time of death. My departure from that job precipitated from one death too close to the heart. Later in my college career I worked in nursing homes on the evening shift, not quite as extreme situation as the hospital, but still disturbing.

But, maybe I am of such shallow character that I am swayed by media. Death will deal with us all, media or no. And we will all form an opinion, informed or ignorant.

[Edward Tinker]

Wes, for you and others on this board to be vocal, elequant and honest on this board on this topic is amazing in itself..

Well, you are not wrong, this is a difficult thing, and I do not beleive I have the internal fortitude to help as you did, although it is something I highly respect...

ed

[Luke]

Honorable men will often disagree. Regardless of the merits, or lack thereof, in the Shiavo case, I fear this is another example of the classic "slippery slope." Only God knows where it will take us.

[jamese]

I am OUTRAGED! Like ED I believe that those who are comatose with no hope of regaining any quality of life should be able to move on to a better life if thatâ??s what they want to do. How thatâ??s accomplished is another matter for another discussion.

As a law enforcement officer in the State of Florida, if I walked into a nursing home or any home for that matter and some one was starving an animal to death I would arrest them on the spot and take protective custody of the animal.

What is hard for me to comprehend is how a Judge can commit murder, in volition of the laws of the state of Florida and those, who have the authority to take action (State Police, or Federal Law Enforcement) they did nothing.

What I also find to be outrageous, is that her parents had to be stripped searched before they would allow them enter the room.


AND I thought the biggest thing I have to fear from my government is the erosion of my right to bare arms.

Gentleman itâ??s a very sad, sad day in this Country.

[Navy]

This case is a true tragedy made worse by being turned into a media circus and exposing just how inhumane our legal system has become.

I was in Macon GA last week attending my dad as he buried my step-Mom. During the course of the visit, I stopped to spend some time with my Mom. She is in her 80s and has late stage Alzheimer's and is blind as the result of medical malpractice occurring some 6 years ago.

On Saturday, as I was preparing to leave, she uttered in her disease slurred speech, "I do not want to live any more". I kissesd her and told her that I loved her and that God would take care of her.

Sunday night, my step Dad found her laying on the hall floor between her bedroom and the bathroom. She was taken to hospital and diagnosed with a stroke. She is being moved today from the hospital to a hospice. The doctors say she has anywhere from 5-7 days to live; she has no will to survive.

My brother and I, in accordance with Mom's living will, have informed the hospice staff that there is to be no resusitation or "heroic" measures. When the Almighty calls, we want Mom to go, sweetly and peacefully. Yet, we have made it very clear that she is to be given drugs, liquids and food as she wishes plus any other pallative care to ease her suffering.

It is the Shaivo case's inhumane witholding of this pallative care that is gruesome and, for me, impossible to understand. That we have a legal system that permits such a travesty and insult to human dignity gives me great pause in considering what our society and culture is coming to be.

God forgive us when we legally tortue the defenseless.

Tom A.

[Ron Smith]

21 years ago April 9th. I had to make the decision to turn off life support for my Father. He was not on a feeding tube. He was on Oxygen.

I did not have to make the decision to starve him to death. I had to make the decision to suffocate him. So I guess I am catagorized as a murderer also.

It's easy to be so damned self-rightious from a distance. Try it hands-on before you start judging anyone!!!

Jerry has spoken everything else that was on my mind.

If it is a sin to allow a soul to move on. Why is it not also a sin to prevent it from doing so? Which is the greater sin?

Ron

[policeluger]

You are so right Tom, so right, it is God who will take care of us and in his time. This is it for me, I will try my best to not reply to this again. Jamese you also hit it right on the head....

[Edward Tinker]

Tom A, I am sorry you are going through this, it is something we all do, but I will still think of you guys and pray that all goes as best as can be.

Ed

[Jack Lawman]

What is "LIFE"?

From the start of the Schiavo drama, I found myself split. I see merit in both arguments... I find both sides equally compelling.

If it were my wife, I could forsee hoping for a miracle. After many years, I could see myself giving up hope.

I am a strong, healthy, ass-kicking middle aged man. As a result of this case, I had a discussion with my wife. She knows I'd prefer death, but I told her to do what is right for her.

I can still keep from getting caught by my kids, 3 vs 1 (aged 8, 6, and 5) in an open field (this may be the last year for that). If watching me engage in brain stem activity after I go down gives my wife comfort, God bless her. But if my will be done... cut me loose... I want to see if St. Michael is "all that". Does he carry cocked-and-locked or does God make him wear a Glock?

Now if it were my daughter... I could see never giving up hope. I could see her Michael Schiavo (heaven forbid) as a murderer. I pray I'm never in that movie.

Just figured I'd add my thoughts. The situation is actually quite simple to understand. In America, people don't agree on what "LIFE" means (and how could you expect them to?). To those you'd call "murderers"... Terri was already dead. To those who'd call you religious zealots... you are.

The Terri Schiavo case is a result of complex, emotionally charged, media-hyped medical decisions made for a person unable to make them for herself. Problem was, the two main caregivers disagreed on what "LIFE" was.

Jack

P.S. As most of you 2nd Ammendment types are aware, the government (self-admittedly) has no obligation to protect you as an individual, only as a collective whole. That's the way I like it... I'll protect myself, let the government worry about everybody else! That's why "everybody else" wants your guns... so the government can protect them from you.