LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > Krieghoff Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 01-14-2010, 12:19 AM   #1
Mike B
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mike B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts
Default 1938 Krieghoff restored

Greetings,
This is a follow up on a thread that was started on Mr. Still's forum. I think it was titled " Is this a real HK?" If you were following it on the other forum, you will know that I said I would post pictures when the Luger arrived. I had much doubt about the authenticity of the Luger, mostly because of the price and also because of a few points brought out on the other forum. But much to my surprise, I think this is a real '38 HK. Here are a few pictures.

Mike
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Krieghoff2.JPG
Views:	17
Size:	74.1 KB
ID:	10916  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Krieghoff3.JPG
Views:	14
Size:	64.8 KB
ID:	10917  

Click image for larger version

Name:	serial.JPG
Views:	12
Size:	32.4 KB
ID:	10921  

Click image for larger version

Name:	side plate.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	33.0 KB
ID:	10922  

Click image for larger version

Name:	star.JPG
Views:	11
Size:	40.9 KB
ID:	10923  

Click image for larger version

Name:	knob.JPG
Views:	12
Size:	75.2 KB
ID:	10924  

Click image for larger version

Name:	trigger gurard.JPG
Views:	10
Size:	33.4 KB
ID:	10925  

Attached Images
   
Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 09:41 AM   #2
sheepherder
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
sheepherder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal...
Posts: 8,170
Thanks: 1,377
Thanked 4,390 Times in 2,316 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
I had much doubt about the authenticity of the Luger, mostly because of the price and also because of a few points brought out on the other forum.
Mike -

I am not familiar with HK's, can you say what those "points of doubt" were??? I can see a couple of areas that might raise doubts, but I don't know if they are considered normal or not...
sheepherder is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 09:58 AM   #3
FNorm
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
FNorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 978
Thanks: 68
Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts
Default

Looks real good. Mike.

FN
FNorm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 11:25 AM   #4
Lugerdoc
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
Lugerdoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302
Posts: 5,089
Thanks: 6
Thanked 734 Times in 482 Posts
Default

Mike, From photos, looks right to me. TH
__________________
Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302
Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net
Lugerdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 05:36 PM   #5
Mike B
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mike B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts
Default

Rich,
I am not really sure since the forum is down. I do recall a question about the "ears" near the safety lever. Another was something about the take down lever. This morning, I compared this 1938 to a 1937 that came out of the Randall Gibson collection. The absolute only difference I saw was the 1938 had a different proof compared to the 1937. In addition, the witness marks did not align on this 1938. Stangely the 1937 had no witness marks on the frame or the barrel.

Tom and Norm,
Thanks for the thumbs up.

Mike
Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 06:00 PM   #6
Norme
Always A
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Norme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,401
Thanks: 206
Thanked 2,539 Times in 918 Posts
Default

Hi Mike, It was felt at the time that the ears were too thin at the back. Now that you have the gun in hand you can tell for sure. Krieghoff and Mauser fames are 130mm long, DWM frames are 1mm shorter at 129mm. I can't tell for sure from your photo, but the magazine release button appears to be straw - it should be fire blue. Regards, Norm
Norme is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 06:20 PM   #7
Mike B
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mike B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts
Default

Hi Norm,
Since it has been restored, I would think the person who restored it did not have that knowledge. That being said, on page 52 of Randal Gibson's book he states, "This component (the magazine release button) is strawed on all of the original contract weapons and those commercial examples derived from this segment of the military range. While strawed examples continue to be noted throughout the remainder of the military and commercial production, the rule is that much darker heat treating prevails. Again purple, blue and black have been observed."

Mike
Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 06:32 PM   #8
lugerholsterrepair
Moderator
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
lugerholsterrepair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arizona/Colorado
Posts: 7,719
Thanks: 4,602
Thanked 2,995 Times in 1,399 Posts
Default

Mike..I only have a complete 1936 Krieghoff to compare with. I have stripped mine down as far as you can strip one and EVERY part except screws and springs has an Eagle2 on it. Some eagle2's are different than others and I understand this was a legitimate transition . It is completely matching.
Do all of your small parts have the Eagle2 acceptance marking?

mostly because of the price ? Do you mean to say you bought it cheaply?

Jerry Burney
__________________
Jerry Burney
11491 S. Guadalupe Drive

Yuma AZ 85367-6182


lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round
719 207-3331 (cell)


"For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."
lugerholsterrepair is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 07:03 PM   #9
Mike B
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mike B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts
Default

Jerry,
Yes, EVERY part has an eagle 2 proof. That does not include springs, grips and pins. If you have Mr. Gibson's book, the most interesting proof is on page 95. Under subheading (B), he shows a proof on which he states "The rarest of the Stage II markings" He goes on to say this proof is seen only on 1938 models. That proof is on the side of the receiver of this 1938.
Yes, it is all matching. I have questions about the barrel being original. As I said earlier, the witness marks do not align. Plus the serial number stamping appears to be a severe double stamp.
Charlie Justman had it listed for $3000.00 on his website. When I called him, he offered a substantial discount without my asking. I think that's a good price; maybe I'm wrong.

Mike
Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 07:08 PM   #10
alvin
User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: US
Posts: 3,843
Thanks: 132
Thanked 728 Times in 437 Posts
Default

The Limited Edition does have strawed magazine release. I think strawed release is correct.

Link: Limited Edition
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-14-2010, 07:33 PM   #11
lugerholsterrepair
Moderator
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
lugerholsterrepair's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Arizona/Colorado
Posts: 7,719
Thanks: 4,602
Thanked 2,995 Times in 1,399 Posts
Default

Mike, It appears to be a rightous Krieghoff to me. This is one area where I stand to learn a little more and yes, I have and have read Mr. Gibson's book, a fascinating read for those who have not. A very valuble referance book.

Jerry Burney
__________________
Jerry Burney
11491 S. Guadalupe Drive

Yuma AZ 85367-6182


lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net

928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round
719 207-3331 (cell)


"For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."
lugerholsterrepair is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2010, 02:55 AM   #12
MFC
User
 
MFC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,233
Thanks: 183
Thanked 278 Times in 160 Posts
Default

Mike was kind enough to bring the gun to my house when he got it. The first thing that struck me was how beautiful the restoration is compared to the one poor photo on Charlie's site. I'm far from an expert, but after going back and forth comparing the gun to Gibson's book, I beleive that Mike is now the proud owner of a very rare 1938 Krieghoff Luger.
__________________
Mike C.
MFC is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2010, 11:28 AM   #13
MP38
User
 
MP38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 464
Thanks: 36
Thanked 113 Times in 60 Posts
Default

I also talked to Charlie about it. It is an original 1938 HK, but it has been restored and some parts have been "force matched" on it. That explains the price.

Matt
MP38 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2010, 01:52 PM   #14
Mike B
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mike B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts
Default

Matt,
Charlie told me the only part that he THOUGHT was forced matched was the magazine. He also told me it had no six point star. That is the first thing I checked for when I received the Luger. The six point star is exactly where it is supposed to be. I had a forum member and also a personal friend of the late Randall Gibson, who is also an avid Krieghoff collector look at it. Both agree it is a legitimate 1938 Krieghoff. The HK collector completely disassembled it and I mean completely, even removing the safety lever and sear bar. All the parts, including all the small parts were properly stamped with the correct numbers and acceptance marks . BTW, I had to drive 300 miles to get to this man's home. Seeing his collection was worth the trip in itself.

Mike
Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2010, 02:06 PM   #15
Mike B
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
Mike B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 976
Thanks: 1
Thanked 271 Times in 99 Posts
Default An after thought

I think it might be interesting to point out that possibly a better picture might have generated more interest..... The picture on the right was on the seller's website.

Mike
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	stitch.JPG
Views:	47
Size:	65.0 KB
ID:	10942  

Mike B is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-15-2010, 09:49 PM   #16
alvin
User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: US
Posts: 3,843
Thanks: 132
Thanked 728 Times in 437 Posts
Default

Need picture quality like this one to tell being good. Don't have a HK, but this pix looks good. Say toggle is original, as long as toggle is not fake matching, how old other parts can be?
Attached Images
 
alvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 1998 - 2023, Lugerforum.com