Need some Walther PPK help.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 12:07 PM

Located a Walther PPK today. It's in it's original cardboard looking box, brownish in color, including the manual in German and factory target. Also there is the cleaning rod and tool, still in what looks to be a thin cardboard. It also has the original bring back papers dated 1944. Over all the Walther is in excellent condition with light ware on a couple of edges.. The mag looks new, almost unfired. I should know the material, but the grips look like a brown plastic. Asking $1,000. $1,000 is about what a matching Luger shooter brings today. Looks like a good buy, but I looking for some pointers as to what to look for. I know, show us some pictures. Headed back today to get and post a few. Also, he has the strangest looking little German revolver. Neither he nor I have ever seen one. Very interesting, it has no exposed hammer. I'll post some pictures of that also to see what it is.
Sorry they are not Lugers, but I know some forum members look to be experts on all German handguns.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 01:43 PM

Got to inspect both pistols closely. First time the owned was busy. First off the PPK was not as nice as it looked, as it had some very small pitting on the front of the frame. Not bad but there is some. I could not field strip it. The numbers match, but I am not sure if the barrel needed a matching number, but looks not to. Also the barrel exterior at the ejection port shows some very light surface rust. The s/n is 123161 Marked Made in Germany. I take it was for export, but if so, why would the manual be in German. Forgot it is in 9MM.

As to the bring back papers, they were not for the PPK, but the small German revolver. Cal. marked 7.65, the papers list it as a .32

It has 2 proof marks, frame/barrel. I think it may be commercial. Proof looks to have wings with a "N" below it. There is mark on top of the receiver, maker? Thanks for any help with these two and their basic value. He is setting them aside to see if I want either of them.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 01:46 PM

Her is a couple more photos.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 01:52 PM

Last two of the PPK.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 01:57 PM

Would like to know the history of this little pistol.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 02:00 PM

Final two photos

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 03:29 PM

Is it a Velo Dog? Closest I can find. Though all of those look to have folding triggers.

Vlim · 11-03-2018, 04:10 PM

Similar style revolvers were marketed by companies like Manufrance. This is from their 1907 catalogue.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 05:02 PM

Thanks much. So it's French and not German. The owner wants me to check on what's worth. He was told it was worth $1,300. Most of the few I have found on line sell for between $200 to $300. Not the same models though. Pushing 100 years old. Sorry to ask, any info on the PPK? Is it for export, and from the s/n can the year of manufacture figured out? Thanks Again.

mrerick · 11-03-2018, 05:06 PM

The PPK is a post war Ulm manufactured pistol (actually made by ManuRhin in France, and finished / proofed by Walther in Ulm.

It would be in 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) caliber.

Probably sold in Germany and brought into the country. If it's marked "Made in W. Germany" on the frame, it was brought in after about 1965.

The Nitro Proof (Eagle/N) indicates it was made for sale and use in Europe. These were imported into the USA from 1955 to 1968 when the US stopped them from importing to the USA because they are smaller than the new import laws required. After that they were made in the USA for Walther/Interarms.

Serial number 123161A (that's the full serial number, the "A" suffix indicates 9mm kurz).

There should be an E/N followed by a number followed by an Antler proof symbol on the barrel visible in the ejection port. That number would reflect the year it was proofed at the Ulm proof house.

These are nice PPK pistols, and not commonly seen in the USA since Ranger manufactured the ones for the USA market after 1968. I don't think it's worth the money being asked....

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 05:12 PM

Any guess at a reasonable value on the PPK? Don't think he will be getting the $1,300 he wants for the Velo-Dog. And not the $1,000 he's asking on the PPK.

mrerick · 11-03-2018, 05:42 PM

I've recently purchased a wartime PP for about $800, and I doubt that this one would be worth more than 2/3 of that as a shooter. Perhaps $550....

I don't know if these European pistols sell for a great deal more in the USA than the ones imported by Interarms or made by Ranger in the USA and sold with their markings.

My Ranger made PPK sold for $425 a few years ago. These are on par with the quality of the Manurhin / Ulm made pistols.

Jasta2 · 11-03-2018, 06:18 PM

It would be tough to offer the seller say $600 for a pistol he wants $1,000 for. But all I can do is make a offer. If not accepted, just walk away.

kurusu · 11-04-2018, 11:17 AM

1944 bringback papers? For a post war PPK? That's odd. To say the least.

Edit. mrerick already nailed it. Sorry.

Jasta2 · 11-04-2018, 11:39 AM

The seller made a mistake on the bring back paper. I posted it in my original post. It was not 1944 and for the PPK, it was 1945 and it was for the Velo-Dog. I emailed the seller about my research, he said thank you and for now he would keep priced as is, and do his own research. As I expected, I did offer $600 for the PPK, but seeing he was asking $1,000, he would drop the price to $900, but no lower. I hope he has success selling them for what he is asking.

11-03-2018, 12:07 PM	#1
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Need some Walther PPK help. Located a Walther PPK today. It's in it's original cardboard looking box, brownish in color, including the manual in German and factory target. Also there is the cleaning rod and tool, still in what looks to be a thin cardboard. It also has the original bring back papers dated 1944. Over all the Walther is in excellent condition with light ware on a couple of edges.. The mag looks new, almost unfired. I should know the material, but the grips look like a brown plastic. Asking $1,000. $1,000 is about what a matching Luger shooter brings today. Looks like a good buy, but I looking for some pointers as to what to look for. I know, show us some pictures. Headed back today to get and post a few. Also, he has the strangest looking little German revolver. Neither he nor I have ever seen one. Very interesting, it has no exposed hammer. I'll post some pictures of that also to see what it is. Sorry they are not Lugers, but I know some forum members look to be experts on all German handguns. Last edited by Jasta2; 11-03-2018 at 02:06 PM.

11-03-2018, 01:43 PM	#2
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Some pictures of both. Got to inspect both pistols closely. First time the owned was busy. First off the PPK was not as nice as it looked, as it had some very small pitting on the front of the frame. Not bad but there is some. I could not field strip it. The numbers match, but I am not sure if the barrel needed a matching number, but looks not to. Also the barrel exterior at the ejection port shows some very light surface rust. The s/n is 123161 Marked Made in Germany. I take it was for export, but if so, why would the manual be in German. Forgot it is in 9MM. As to the bring back papers, they were not for the PPK, but the small German revolver. Cal. marked 7.65, the papers list it as a .32 It has 2 proof marks, frame/barrel. I think it may be commercial. Proof looks to have wings with a "N" below it. There is mark on top of the receiver, maker? Thanks for any help with these two and their basic value. He is setting them aside to see if I want either of them. Attached Thumbnails

11-03-2018, 01:46 PM	#3
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	More Her is a couple more photos. Attached Thumbnails

11-03-2018, 01:52 PM	#4
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Couple more Last two of the PPK. Attached Thumbnails

11-03-2018, 01:57 PM	#5
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Now the small revolver Would like to know the history of this little pistol. Attached Thumbnails

11-03-2018, 02:00 PM	#6
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Last 2 Final two photos Attached Thumbnails

11-03-2018, 03:29 PM	#7
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Is it a Velo Dog? Closest I can find. Though all of those look to have folding triggers.

11-03-2018, 04:10 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Similar style revolvers were marketed by companies like Manufrance. This is from their 1907 catalogue. Attached Thumbnails

11-03-2018, 05:02 PM	#9
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Thanks much. So it's French and not German. The owner wants me to check on what's worth. He was told it was worth $1,300. Most of the few I have found on line sell for between $200 to $300. Not the same models though. Pushing 100 years old. Sorry to ask, any info on the PPK? Is it for export, and from the s/n can the year of manufacture figured out? Thanks Again.

11-03-2018, 05:06 PM	#10
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The PPK is a post war Ulm manufactured pistol (actually made by ManuRhin in France, and finished / proofed by Walther in Ulm. It would be in 9mm Kurz (.380 ACP) caliber. Probably sold in Germany and brought into the country. If it's marked "Made in W. Germany" on the frame, it was brought in after about 1965. The Nitro Proof (Eagle/N) indicates it was made for sale and use in Europe. These were imported into the USA from 1955 to 1968 when the US stopped them from importing to the USA because they are smaller than the new import laws required. After that they were made in the USA for Walther/Interarms. Serial number 123161A (that's the full serial number, the "A" suffix indicates 9mm kurz). There should be an E/N followed by a number followed by an Antler proof symbol on the barrel visible in the ejection port. That number would reflect the year it was proofed at the Ulm proof house. These are nice PPK pistols, and not commonly seen in the USA since Ranger manufactured the ones for the USA market after 1968. I don't think it's worth the money being asked.... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-03-2018, 05:12 PM	#11
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	Any guess at a reasonable value on the PPK? Don't think he will be getting the $1,300 he wants for the Velo-Dog. And not the $1,000 he's asking on the PPK.

11-03-2018, 05:42 PM	#12
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	I've recently purchased a wartime PP for about $800, and I doubt that this one would be worth more than 2/3 of that as a shooter. Perhaps $550.... I don't know if these European pistols sell for a great deal more in the USA than the ones imported by Interarms or made by Ranger in the USA and sold with their markings. My Ranger made PPK sold for $425 a few years ago. These are on par with the quality of the Manurhin / Ulm made pistols. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-03-2018, 06:18 PM	#13
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	It would be tough to offer the seller say $600 for a pistol he wants $1,000 for. But all I can do is make a offer. If not accepted, just walk away.

11-04-2018, 11:17 AM	#14
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	1944 bringback papers? For a post war PPK? That's odd. To say the least. Edit. mrerick already nailed it. Sorry.

11-04-2018, 11:39 AM	#15
Jasta2 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Lakeland, Fl. Posts: 514 Thanks: 349 Thanked 101 Times in 52 Posts	The seller made a mistake on the bring back paper. I posted it in my original post. It was not 1944 and for the PPK, it was 1945 and it was for the Velo-Dog. I emailed the seller about my research, he said thank you and for now he would keep priced as is, and do his own research. As I expected, I did offer $600 for the PPK, but seeing he was asking $1,000, he would drop the price to $900, but no lower. I hope he has success selling them for what he is asking.