Luger Ammo

Marvin · 11-27-2001, 08:51 AM

I was just thinking about shooting original German Luger ammunition. On other firearms sites, the old 8mm Mauser rifle round made in the 1930-1940-1950s ear is fired on a regular basis. Most of the folks that fire this ammo have mixed opinions, but for the most part, they are satisfied with the results. We have discussed the firing of original 9mmP ammo in our Lugers before and the general concensus is DON'T do do it. I agree with this statement because we don't know how the ammo has been stored, and other factors which can effect it's characteristics.

Now, with this said, I feel sure that some of you have fired original German 9mmP ammo in the past. If so, how did it fire, was it reliable, did the action operate properly, was the burned powder dirty, etc.? How did the ammo compare with what is available on the commercial market today? It would be interesting to hear your experience.

About 20 years ago when I was firing in competition with an 03 Springfield, the best standard ammo I could find was the old Denver Arsenal corrosive ammo made in the early 1940s. This stuff was great and would be very closr to the National Match stuff I fired in competition. At the time, this ammo was about 35-40 years old. Just a thought from experience on this.

Marvin

John Sabato · 11-27-2001, 10:49 AM

Marvin,

When I was a young man (around 1966), my Dad allowed me to shoot up his supply of about 100 captured rounds of 9mm Pistolen Patronen ammo that was green steel cased. I wish now that I had not done so, but only because the ammo itself would be of historical signifigance today... The supply is not limitless and someday most of it will be gone.

I bought him some modern ammo in return to replace it with and proceeded to the range with my friends. The ammo was dated 1944 and with a clean and lubricated Luger, not a single round malfunctioned and all shot to point of aim at 25 yards...

Later in the mid 1970's I also purchased a couple hundred rounds of ammo from the same vintage and once again had no problems. Military ammo, as I am sure you are aware is sealed when assembled to keep moisture from getting in around the bullet or primer. In my experience, if the ammo is from a known good lot, is not corroded on the outside, and has been stored in a reasonable environment, I would probably trust my life to it if a random test firing of a few rounds proved reliable...

Anyone who fires this old ammo should be aware that the primer is corrosive and the weapon should be thoroughly cleaned several times (preferably with U.S. borecleaner) to insure that it does not attack the barrel/chamber if left unattended.

My advice is to "hold what you got" because in the not too distant future, this ammo that is the peer of your Luger will be valuable as collectors items... there is plenty of inexpensive surplus ammo around so that you don't have to shoot up "history". To me it is the same principle as not firing collectibles, only shooters...

Hope that helps...

regards, John Sabato

Marvin · 11-27-2001, 11:47 AM

John,

I agree that any old Luger ammo will be/is a collectible item now! having fired and still do some of the older rifle ammo, I was wondering how well the old German ammo woulod fire and it probably will function and hit point of aim as orginally intended. With all the different commercial ammo and the new stuff from Russia coming in, many tend to have some problems with funtioning of the pistol. I understand that the condition of the springs and the pistol itself does make a difference in charateristics of function.

I agree that we should hold on to the existing ammo! I know that some dealers are selling original WWII production German 8mm rifle ammo at a very good price and I hate to see this collectible ammo being shot up as there will never be anymore.

Marvin

Lonnie Zimmerman · 11-27-2001, 03:22 PM

My first Luger, a 1916 Erfurt, jammed all the time when I first got it. I was using Win ammo at the time. Somewhere I read that the Win wasn"t hot enough, so I found some surplus Finnish (VPT44)in the Shotgun News and gave it a try. 90% success!! A new FXO Magazine for $6.95, and the pistol become virtually jam free.

Lonnie

John Sabato · 11-27-2001, 05:30 PM

11-27-2001, 06:08 PM

In the late 70's I had a S&W 39 and I bought 5 or 6 hundred rounds of German (allegedly) sub-machine gun ammo.

Being dumb and adventurous, I shot it through my S&W and then years later after I got my Artillery; I shot several hundred rounds through it. It was military, non-reloadable, had steel bullets and shot really nice. I am sure I had some misfires, but I don't remember very many.

I wish I still had some, but I would be tempted to shoot it through my lugers...

Ed

Lonnie Zimmerman · 11-27-2001, 06:42 PM

John; I made a mistake. The magazine was $8.50. It was 1969. The list says; I don"t sell pistols, but contact Ralph Shattuck in Birmingham, Michigan, he puts out a nice list for 50Cents!!

\ Lonnie

Big Norm · 11-28-2001, 03:53 AM

When I read the Sept/Oct issue of American Handgunner about the 1918 artillery Luger, I realized that I had about 6 rounds of the ammo that they described as the original ammo. The kind with the cone shaped bullet. I quickly separated that ammo from my stash and labeled it as "Rare Original Ammo". Now I am convinced that that gun really was a vet bring back.

Bug Norm

11-28-2001, 11:31 AM

I personally know a guy who used hot sub-machine gun ammo in his Luger. I had bought the Luger, but he decided to shoot up some ammo he had first. After a few shots the receiver separated into pieces and he acquired significant number of stitches in his hand and couldn't use if for quite a while. He looked at the ammo box----"For Use in Sub-machine gun only."

11-28-2001, 11:35 AM

Years ago, I shot up some of this steel bullet WW2 ammo in my P38 (since it was illegal to sell these armour piercing "Cop Killer" bullets in Calif) at an in door range. It wasn't until I had shot a full mag, that I realized that the foot long tongue of flame coming out of the barrel, was actually sparks from the bullets wearing down the bore.

Steve Lempitski · 11-28-2001, 01:34 PM

With steel core ammo, shooting indoors, you are lucky they did not come back at you! Any damage to the indoor range?

11-27-2001, 08:51 AM	#1
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger Ammo I was just thinking about shooting original German Luger ammunition. On other firearms sites, the old 8mm Mauser rifle round made in the 1930-1940-1950s ear is fired on a regular basis. Most of the folks that fire this ammo have mixed opinions, but for the most part, they are satisfied with the results. We have discussed the firing of original 9mmP ammo in our Lugers before and the general concensus is DON'T do do it. I agree with this statement because we don't know how the ammo has been stored, and other factors which can effect it's characteristics. Now, with this said, I feel sure that some of you have fired original German 9mmP ammo in the past. If so, how did it fire, was it reliable, did the action operate properly, was the burned powder dirty, etc.? How did the ammo compare with what is available on the commercial market today? It would be interesting to hear your experience. About 20 years ago when I was firing in competition with an 03 Springfield, the best standard ammo I could find was the old Denver Arsenal corrosive ammo made in the early 1940s. This stuff was great and would be very closr to the National Match stuff I fired in competition. At the time, this ammo was about 35-40 years old. Just a thought from experience on this. Marvin

11-27-2001, 10:49 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Past history... old Luger Ammo Marvin, When I was a young man (around 1966), my Dad allowed me to shoot up his supply of about 100 captured rounds of 9mm Pistolen Patronen ammo that was green steel cased. I wish now that I had not done so, but only because the ammo itself would be of historical signifigance today... The supply is not limitless and someday most of it will be gone. I bought him some modern ammo in return to replace it with and proceeded to the range with my friends. The ammo was dated 1944 and with a clean and lubricated Luger, not a single round malfunctioned and all shot to point of aim at 25 yards... Later in the mid 1970's I also purchased a couple hundred rounds of ammo from the same vintage and once again had no problems. Military ammo, as I am sure you are aware is sealed when assembled to keep moisture from getting in around the bullet or primer. In my experience, if the ammo is from a known good lot, is not corroded on the outside, and has been stored in a reasonable environment, I would probably trust my life to it if a random test firing of a few rounds proved reliable... Anyone who fires this old ammo should be aware that the primer is corrosive and the weapon should be thoroughly cleaned several times (preferably with U.S. borecleaner) to insure that it does not attack the barrel/chamber if left unattended. My advice is to "hold what you got" because in the not too distant future, this ammo that is the peer of your Luger will be valuable as collectors items... there is plenty of inexpensive surplus ammo around so that you don't have to shoot up "history". To me it is the same principle as not firing collectibles, only shooters... Hope that helps... regards, John Sabato

11-27-2001, 11:47 AM	#3
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Past history... old Luger Ammo John, I agree that any old Luger ammo will be/is a collectible item now! having fired and still do some of the older rifle ammo, I was wondering how well the old German ammo woulod fire and it probably will function and hit point of aim as orginally intended. With all the different commercial ammo and the new stuff from Russia coming in, many tend to have some problems with funtioning of the pistol. I understand that the condition of the springs and the pistol itself does make a difference in charateristics of function. I agree that we should hold on to the existing ammo! I know that some dealers are selling original WWII production German 8mm rifle ammo at a very good price and I hate to see this collectible ammo being shot up as there will never be anymore. Marvin

11-27-2001, 03:22 PM	#4
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Past history... old Luger Ammo My first Luger, a 1916 Erfurt, jammed all the time when I first got it. I was using Win ammo at the time. Somewhere I read that the Win wasn"t hot enough, so I found some surplus Finnish (VPT44)in the Shotgun News and gave it a try. 90% success!! A new FXO Magazine for $6.95, and the pistol become virtually jam free. Lonnie

11-27-2001, 05:30 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	A new FXO Magazine for $6.95 How long ago was that Lonnie?

11-27-2001, 06:08 PM	#6
66mustang Guest Posts: n/a	old Luger Ammo sub-Machine gun ? In the late 70's I had a S&W 39 and I bought 5 or 6 hundred rounds of German (allegedly) sub-machine gun ammo. Being dumb and adventurous, I shot it through my S&W and then years later after I got my Artillery; I shot several hundred rounds through it. It was military, non-reloadable, had steel bullets and shot really nice. I am sure I had some misfires, but I don't remember very many. I wish I still had some, but I would be tempted to shoot it through my lugers... Ed

11-27-2001, 06:42 PM	#7
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: A new FXO Magazine for $6.95 How long ago was that Lonnie? John; I made a mistake. The magazine was $8.50. It was 1969. The list says; I don"t sell pistols, but contact Ralph Shattuck in Birmingham, Michigan, he puts out a nice list for 50Cents!! \ Lonnie

11-28-2001, 03:53 AM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: old Luger Ammo sub-Machine gun ? When I read the Sept/Oct issue of American Handgunner about the 1918 artillery Luger, I realized that I had about 6 rounds of the ammo that they described as the original ammo. The kind with the cone shaped bullet. I quickly separated that ammo from my stash and labeled it as "Rare Original Ammo". Now I am convinced that that gun really was a vet bring back. Bug Norm

11-28-2001, 11:31 AM	#9
Art Buchanan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: old Luger Ammo sub-Machine gun ? I personally know a guy who used hot sub-machine gun ammo in his Luger. I had bought the Luger, but he decided to shoot up some ammo he had first. After a few shots the receiver separated into pieces and he acquired significant number of stitches in his hand and couldn't use if for quite a while. He looked at the ammo box----"For Use in Sub-machine gun only."

11-28-2001, 11:35 AM	#10
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: old Luger Ammo sub-Machine gun ? Years ago, I shot up some of this steel bullet WW2 ammo in my P38 (since it was illegal to sell these armour piercing "Cop Killer" bullets in Calif) at an in door range. It wasn't until I had shot a full mag, that I realized that the foot long tongue of flame coming out of the barrel, was actually sparks from the bullets wearing down the bore.

11-28-2001, 01:34 PM	#11
Steve Lempitski User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Old Cape Cod Posts: 238 Thanks: 1 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Re: old Luger Ammo sub-Machine gun ? With steel core ammo, shooting indoors, you are lucky they did not come back at you! Any damage to the indoor range?