Grip renovation

Jay Newman · 11-24-2001, 09:40 PM

Since I am new to Luger collecting, I may have a stupid question. If I have the original grips of a collectable Luger renovated, will this have any effect on the value of the pistol? Would appreciate any insight anyone can give me.

11-24-2001, 11:34 PM

You are about to have 10 guys tell you not to do it! But before you decide. What do you consider a collectable Luger? What model is it? What is blue and metal conditon? What condition are grips now? Do you want to just clean oil and dirt from grips? Please don't use the Murphy Soap and water method. Do they in your opinion require checkering to be sharpened? [I did't say rechecker-just improve what is there] It is your Luger and obviously you want the grips to look better. Go for it. Feel free to email for more detailed info.

11-25-2001, 01:28 AM

Tricky thing to do right. Have a very experienced grip guy do any recheckering. Bad recheckering is easy to spot and often can't be fixed.

Johnny Peppers · 11-25-2001, 10:43 AM

Also, don't over renovate your grips. Razor sharp checkering that is suppose to be 60 to 100 years old is a dead giveaway that they are not original.

Jay Newman · 11-25-2001, 11:08 PM

Thanks Art, M/M and Johnny for your feedback. Very good advice from all of you. Jay

BILL · 11-26-2001, 06:43 PM

Art, what is it about the Murphy's soap method that you find objectionable? I know that it is listed in the FAQ and would like to hear why you give it a resounding thumbs down?

Mikey · 11-26-2001, 06:52 PM

Yeah, me too as I just finished that step on my K-date....It's drying now and plan on linseed-oiling this evening. So far, all looks per the FAQs though I will have some old oil-soaking spots, I think.

Hugh · 11-26-2001, 08:29 PM

If you are going to have your grips recheckered, or the checkering "freshened", PLEASE DO NOT CLEAN THEM! It makes them fuzzy and the checkering is not as sharp. When they are recheckered, they will be cleaned by the checkering tool, as the top layer of wood is removed by it.

11-26-2001, 09:53 PM

This is true if you soak them up with soap and water. I have freshened and checkered dozens and dozens of grips in past 20 years. There is a better way to remove oil and crud from grips which does not fuz up checkering like soap and water. Grips checker much easier if the crud is cleaned off first--the tool does not slip nearly as easily and you do not have to remove as much wood. But since some unknown[to me] expert has already put in print the Murphy Oil method it must the best. Would you soak up a fine piece of furniture with soap and water? How about a fancy gunstock with checkering? I just hate to see the new guys soaking wood in soap and water when there is a better and less abusive way to do it. I am reluctant to post my method because about 10 guys will likely diagree before they try it. Those that were truly interested have already contacted me directly. I am not and expert either but I have learned from time to time in 40+years of wood working and Luger restore work.

BILL · 11-26-2001, 10:18 PM

Art, I will contact you off the forum, but...If we don't share information that we have we will defeat the purpose of this forum. I know what it is like to tell someone something that you KNOW is right and have people come out of the woodwork to belittle what you say. Unfortunately we sometimes encourage our local experts inadvertantly by praising them for their knowledge and overlooking their bad social characteristics. I would like to encourage you to share your feelings, good or bad, about soaking a minty pair of original walnut grips that are seventy years old in a bowl of soapy water (it does sound sort of harsh when you think about it). I don't have any feelings one way or the other (I have used the soap and water method and it works and I noticed no bad results) but if you can tell us a different way to achieve the same results I know there are many fine folks here who would love to hear about it. Either way, your input is respected and appreciated.

Johnny Peppers · 11-27-2001, 01:12 AM

Don't know is this is considered a bad social habit or what, but I thorougly agree with Art on not putting water on any Luger grip or any other delicate piece of wood. There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the grips a good cleaning, but I limit the cleaning tool to a medium tooth brush. Again this is my opinion and I will not state it as a fact, but the grips usually age along with the finish of the pistol and any attempt to make the grips look 100% on an 80% pistol looks out of place. If I found a 98% AE with grips that looked like they came off an 80% AE I would probably have them sharpened up to match the pistol, but by the same token if I found an 80% AE with 80% grips I would leave it alone with the exception of a good brushing.

John Sabato · 11-27-2001, 11:25 AM

The article in the FAQ was authored by Ted Green (Thor) and is based on his experimentation to restore old grips. Ted never claimed to be an expert (in grip restoration anyway ) but gave us the benefit of what he has tried and the success it achieved. we all consider him to be a new expert in the rust blueing and straw refinishing of fine automatic pistols...

I strongly urge you to post your method... you are not liable for anyone's use of your method and the results they get... just caveat your post with a similar disclaimer that UMMV (you're milage may vary) if you try this method... I also encourage you to post some before and after photos if you have them to show the results you have obtained.

I am sure Dok (webmaster) would also post your method in the FAQ as an alternative for cleaning grips. Not all methods fit all circumstances... or grips

We value the opinions and experience of all those who post here Art, not only you included, but you especially...

regards,

John Sabato

Mikey · 11-27-2001, 01:07 PM

Ditto, with the above...Please post.

I just finished the the FAQ method on original K-date grips with excellent results. The wood just looks like it got a good cleaning but still has great checkering and "old" look to it. It did not go from black to perfect restored or new grips which would have been hokey. I view this method as you would clean and oil the metal parts of the gun...not as a restoration to a new look. All the scars remain as do the deep stains from the years of use. If your Luger has some wear, I think you would want to consider this method. A full resto job might want to try a different way.

My two cents from a complete newbie-novice.

Mike

Heinz · 11-27-2001, 08:56 PM

I think the FAQ method is an excellent method for wood cleaning. I have never used it on Luger grips but have used the same basic method on a number of 150+ year old muzzle loaders. Another choice if you do not like the idea of water on the wood (because of issues of raisng the grain or potentially warping thin wood) is artists turpentine. Note, you have to go to the art supply store and buy artist's turpentine and pick up a bottle of artist's boiled linseed oil while you are at it. Hardware store turpentines and linseed oils are pretty variable. If the wood has a lot of oil saturation you may try putting the turpentine in a dish, brushing it repeatedly over the wood with a soft paint brush and letting it run back into the dish. Periodically blot the turpentine off the grips with paper towels or absorbent cotton. Be very careful blotting that you do not snag on any splinters. I have been told that you may also use a powdered compound called "whiting" to do the blotting but I have never tried it myself. It might get gooey. I have never done Luger grips but have used this on Colt grips and 200 year old rifles. This method will more aggresively remove any of the old finish than Murphy's oil soap, so you need to re oil the wood. I dilute the artist's boiled linseed oil 50/50 with turp. Blot off any excess and let it dry a day at least and recoat. A stiff bristle paint brush helps. I do NOT use a tooth brush around checkering, but I am a bit of a Klutz at times. This works for me, if it don't for you, then you should have tried in on some scrap wood first - I did.

Johnny Peppers · 11-27-2001, 10:50 PM

The whiting is used to pull oil and grease from M1 Rifle stocks that have become too oil soaked to restore any other way. It is mixed in a solution and the stock is soaked in a tank of the solution. Some of the rifles have been stored in cosmoline for over 40 years and the stocks have really taken up a lot of grease. This is not done on collector quality stocks, but just to aid in the restoration of a virtually useless stock. The 50/50 mixture of BLO and turpentine is a very good finish for these stocks also.

11-24-2001, 09:40 PM	#1
Jay Newman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sequim, WA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Grip renovation Since I am new to Luger collecting, I may have a stupid question. If I have the original grips of a collectable Luger renovated, will this have any effect on the value of the pistol? Would appreciate any insight anyone can give me.

11-24-2001, 11:34 PM	#2
Art Buchanan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Grip renovation You are about to have 10 guys tell you not to do it! But before you decide. What do you consider a collectable Luger? What model is it? What is blue and metal conditon? What condition are grips now? Do you want to just clean oil and dirt from grips? Please don't use the Murphy Soap and water method. Do they in your opinion require checkering to be sharpened? [I did't say rechecker-just improve what is there] It is your Luger and obviously you want the grips to look better. Go for it. Feel free to email for more detailed info.

11-25-2001, 01:28 AM	#3
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Grip renovation Tricky thing to do right. Have a very experienced grip guy do any recheckering. Bad recheckering is easy to spot and often can't be fixed.

11-25-2001, 10:43 AM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Grip renovation Also, don't over renovate your grips. Razor sharp checkering that is suppose to be 60 to 100 years old is a dead giveaway that they are not original.

11-25-2001, 11:08 PM	#5
Jay Newman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sequim, WA Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Grip renovation Thanks Art, M/M and Johnny for your feedback. Very good advice from all of you. Jay

11-26-2001, 06:43 PM	#6
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Grip renovation Art, what is it about the Murphy's soap method that you find objectionable? I know that it is listed in the FAQ and would like to hear why you give it a resounding thumbs down?

11-26-2001, 06:52 PM	#7
Mikey User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Grip renovation Yeah, me too as I just finished that step on my K-date....It's drying now and plan on linseed-oiling this evening. So far, all looks per the FAQs though I will have some old oil-soaking spots, I think.

11-26-2001, 08:29 PM	#8
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Grip renovation If you are going to have your grips recheckered, or the checkering "freshened", PLEASE DO NOT CLEAN THEM! It makes them fuzzy and the checkering is not as sharp. When they are recheckered, they will be cleaned by the checkering tool, as the top layer of wood is removed by it.

11-26-2001, 09:53 PM	#9
Art Buchanan Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Grip renovation This is true if you soak them up with soap and water. I have freshened and checkered dozens and dozens of grips in past 20 years. There is a better way to remove oil and crud from grips which does not fuz up checkering like soap and water. Grips checker much easier if the crud is cleaned off first--the tool does not slip nearly as easily and you do not have to remove as much wood. But since some unknown[to me] expert has already put in print the Murphy Oil method it must the best. Would you soak up a fine piece of furniture with soap and water? How about a fancy gunstock with checkering? I just hate to see the new guys soaking wood in soap and water when there is a better and less abusive way to do it. I am reluctant to post my method because about 10 guys will likely diagree before they try it. Those that were truly interested have already contacted me directly. I am not and expert either but I have learned from time to time in 40+years of wood working and Luger restore work.

11-26-2001, 10:18 PM	#10
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Grip renovation Art, I will contact you off the forum, but...If we don't share information that we have we will defeat the purpose of this forum. I know what it is like to tell someone something that you KNOW is right and have people come out of the woodwork to belittle what you say. Unfortunately we sometimes encourage our local experts inadvertantly by praising them for their knowledge and overlooking their bad social characteristics. I would like to encourage you to share your feelings, good or bad, about soaking a minty pair of original walnut grips that are seventy years old in a bowl of soapy water (it does sound sort of harsh when you think about it). I don't have any feelings one way or the other (I have used the soap and water method and it works and I noticed no bad results) but if you can tell us a different way to achieve the same results I know there are many fine folks here who would love to hear about it. Either way, your input is respected and appreciated.

11-27-2001, 01:12 AM	#11
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Grip renovation Don't know is this is considered a bad social habit or what, but I thorougly agree with Art on not putting water on any Luger grip or any other delicate piece of wood. There is absolutely nothing wrong with giving the grips a good cleaning, but I limit the cleaning tool to a medium tooth brush. Again this is my opinion and I will not state it as a fact, but the grips usually age along with the finish of the pistol and any attempt to make the grips look 100% on an 80% pistol looks out of place. If I found a 98% AE with grips that looked like they came off an 80% AE I would probably have them sharpened up to match the pistol, but by the same token if I found an 80% AE with 80% grips I would leave it alone with the exception of a good brushing.

11-27-2001, 11:25 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I second Bill Stanley's comments Art... The article in the FAQ was authored by Ted Green (Thor) and is based on his experimentation to restore old grips. Ted never claimed to be an expert (in grip restoration anyway ) but gave us the benefit of what he has tried and the success it achieved. we all consider him to be a new expert in the rust blueing and straw refinishing of fine automatic pistols... I strongly urge you to post your method... you are not liable for anyone's use of your method and the results they get... just caveat your post with a similar disclaimer that UMMV (you're milage may vary) if you try this method... I also encourage you to post some before and after photos if you have them to show the results you have obtained. I am sure Dok (webmaster) would also post your method in the FAQ as an alternative for cleaning grips. Not all methods fit all circumstances... or grips We value the opinions and experience of all those who post here Art, not only you included, but you especially... regards, John Sabato

11-27-2001, 01:07 PM	#13
Mikey User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: I second Bill Stanley's comments Art... Ditto, with the above...Please post. I just finished the the FAQ method on original K-date grips with excellent results. The wood just looks like it got a good cleaning but still has great checkering and "old" look to it. It did not go from black to perfect restored or new grips which would have been hokey. I view this method as you would clean and oil the metal parts of the gun...not as a restoration to a new look. All the scars remain as do the deep stains from the years of use. If your Luger has some wear, I think you would want to consider this method. A full resto job might want to try a different way. My two cents from a complete newbie-novice. Mike

11-27-2001, 08:56 PM	#14
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Re: I second Bill Stanley's comments Art... I think the FAQ method is an excellent method for wood cleaning. I have never used it on Luger grips but have used the same basic method on a number of 150+ year old muzzle loaders. Another choice if you do not like the idea of water on the wood (because of issues of raisng the grain or potentially warping thin wood) is artists turpentine. Note, you have to go to the art supply store and buy artist's turpentine and pick up a bottle of artist's boiled linseed oil while you are at it. Hardware store turpentines and linseed oils are pretty variable. If the wood has a lot of oil saturation you may try putting the turpentine in a dish, brushing it repeatedly over the wood with a soft paint brush and letting it run back into the dish. Periodically blot the turpentine off the grips with paper towels or absorbent cotton. Be very careful blotting that you do not snag on any splinters. I have been told that you may also use a powdered compound called "whiting" to do the blotting but I have never tried it myself. It might get gooey. I have never done Luger grips but have used this on Colt grips and 200 year old rifles. This method will more aggresively remove any of the old finish than Murphy's oil soap, so you need to re oil the wood. I dilute the artist's boiled linseed oil 50/50 with turp. Blot off any excess and let it dry a day at least and recoat. A stiff bristle paint brush helps. I do NOT use a tooth brush around checkering, but I am a bit of a Klutz at times. This works for me, if it don't for you, then you should have tried in on some scrap wood first - I did.

11-27-2001, 10:50 PM	#15
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: I second Bill Stanley's comments Art... The whiting is used to pull oil and grease from M1 Rifle stocks that have become too oil soaked to restore any other way. It is mixed in a solution and the stock is soaked in a tank of the solution. Some of the rifles have been stored in cosmoline for over 40 years and the stocks have really taken up a lot of grease. This is not done on collector quality stocks, but just to aid in the restoration of a virtually useless stock. The 50/50 mixture of BLO and turpentine is a very good finish for these stocks also.