Should I be disapointed, Part 2 - PICS

Weasel505 · 12-30-2009, 04:38 PM

Hi,

I finally got around to doing some pics of my new arty. I'll post them three at a time.

Recap: DWM 1917, has mismatched numbers on rear sight.

Anybody notice any other "areas of concern"? Thanks.

Bob

Weasel505 · 12-30-2009, 04:41 PM

nt

Weasel505 · 12-30-2009, 04:42 PM

nt

Weasel505 · 12-30-2009, 04:44 PM

Look close

Weasel505 · 12-30-2009, 04:46 PM

nt

Weasel505 · 12-30-2009, 04:50 PM

nt

Weasel505 · 12-30-2009, 04:51 PM

nt

George Anderson · 12-30-2009, 05:13 PM

The take down lever is not correct for an original but might be explained if the pistol is marked "GERMANY". There also appear to be some issues with the barrel. I would suggest that, using a light and glass, you examine the markings on top of the barrel underneath the rear sight. Those numbers will confirm if the barrel is original to the pistol.

Vlim · 12-30-2009, 07:42 PM

Have to agree with George. The barrel shows signs of being worked on, a possible replacement.

Weasel505 · 01-04-2010, 09:14 PM

Guys,

I know it has been the holidays and all, but I'm a little underwhelmed by the lack of response to my post. I thank Mr. Anderson and Mr. Vlim for their input, but jeez.......

There's gotta be some more artillery experten out there. And if you've looked at my pics and think the gun is messed up, just let me know. I can take it. Well, maybe....

Rant off.

Bob

Norme · 01-04-2010, 09:24 PM

Hi Bob, I guess no one wants to be the bearer of bad news, but since you ask, here goes. The barrel looks to have been renumbered to match the frame. This, of course, would also explain the mismatched rear sight. Regards, Norm

lugerholsterrepair · 01-04-2010, 10:04 PM

Bob, I like every Artillery I come accross..Some better than others. Like Norm I don't want to be overly critical. Many collectors have NO Artillery so you are lucky to have one!
The rear sight ramp, with the graduated numbers has been monkeyed with. It should be in the white with the numbers blackned. It appears to have been blued?

It's odd that the takedown lever is marked on the underside in the commercial manner...

Like George says, take a close look at your barrel. It's been messed with in some way.

Get a nice original stock and holster for it and see how it likes the range!

Jerry Burney

LugerVern · 01-05-2010, 04:29 PM

Bob

Is there a notch cut in the top of the receiver for the rear sight?
It is most likely there I just can not see it in any of the pictures.

I would like to see a better picture of the end of the rear toggle?

thanks

Vern

Weasel505 · 01-07-2010, 04:06 PM

OK, I asked for it. Too bad you guys can’t hear me banging my head against the wall.

Thanks much to all who commented. And to LugerVern, yes the receiver has been notched for the rear sight, the rear toggle has no V sight.

I just got done looking at the afflicted area under a medium-power microscope, and have determined the following:

· The area under the barrel and receiver have an index mark; it lines up, but wasn’t struck at the same time (that is, looks rematched)
· The area under the barrel has a bore diameter marking of 8.84; however, the top (toward the muzzle) approximate one-half of the stamping has been filed and/or buffed out
· The serial number (2370) has been badly struck over partially filed or buffed-out numbers, which appear to be 1741
· The 0 is a different font from the 0 on the side of the receiver
· The h below the serial number has been buffed almost to obliteration (and why is there a letter here? I thought they were only marked on the front of the frame?)
· The h in the serial number is a different font than the h on the frame, which actually may be a k
· The eagle (?) marking on the side of the barrel is different from the one on the right side of the receiver

So, 1) the original number 1741, the h, and the 8.84 were partially filed (file marks observable) and then buffed; then 2) the number 2370 was very sloppily struck over the former numbers; and finally 3) the affected area was touch-up blued.

So the barrel is a force-match to the rest of the gun. Also explains the mismatched sight parts. But who would go to all the trouble to renumber a barrel and do it so badly? And to leave remnants of the previous markings? Seems to me that you could remove the serial number and keep the 8.84 intact, but they didn’t. Like they didn’t care what it looked like.

I’m probably reading too much into this, but this looks to me like an arsenal repair/rework job. If it was some present-day scumbag trying to boost a gun they would have done a better job. A German armorer wouldn’t care what it looked like, just so it’s fixed and functioning (and properly serialized).

Any comments? Thanks for reading. This post is entitled, “Grabbing at Straws”.

Bob

lugerholsterrepair · 01-07-2010, 04:14 PM

A German armorer wouldn’t care what it looked like, just so it’s fixed and functioning (and properly serialized).

I couldn't disagree more. This was a hack job by bubba. A German armorer would have the proper tools & CARE what it looked like , proud of the end result.

Don't fool yourself into thinking this is an arsenal repair/rework job.

Jerry Burney

George Anderson · 01-07-2010, 05:01 PM

[QUOTE=George Anderson;171301... I would suggest that, using a light and glass, you examine the markings on top of the barrel underneath the rear sight. Those numbers will confirm if the barrel is original to the pistol.[/QUOTE]

If you want to confirm the originality of the barrel I suggest that you take the adivice already given. The answer is under the sight.

Weasel505 · 01-07-2010, 05:06 PM

Are you telling me to remove the sight from the barrel? If so, how do I do that? Thanks.

Bob

George Anderson · 01-07-2010, 05:11 PM

No. Simply elevate the sight to its maximum and then using a light and glass determine what the numbers are on the top of the barrel beneath the sight. I am not referring to numbers on the sight base but on the barrel.

lugerholsterrepair · 01-07-2010, 05:54 PM

Bob, DO NOT attempt to remove the sight from the barrel unless you know exactly what you are doing! These sights are actually fragile and some are held in with set screws. A good Friend broke a sight base in 4 pieces because he was un aware that a set pin existed. In his defense he was un able to raise the sight ladder to see it..

Just do what George says...

Weasel505 · 01-07-2010, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the warning about removing the sight. I've gotten so wrapped up in this I probably would have tried it.

From what I can see under the sight, with the sight raised to maximum, is:

- stamped perpendicular to the barrel (i.e. like the date), the numbers 442
- stamped parallel to the barrel, just above the 442 (toward the muzzle), the number 3. The 3 faces the rear of the gun.

Once again, any comments, O Learned Ones? To answer my own question, yes, I'm a bit disappointed, but not terribly so. The pistol is in such great condition. And if this is a reblue job, I'll eat it.

I guess I'll just have to be happy with owning the finest friggin' shooter-grade arty ever.

Thanks for the help. You guys are great.

Bob

12-30-2009, 04:38 PM	#1
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Should I be disapointed, Part 2 - PICS Hi, I finally got around to doing some pics of my new arty. I'll post them three at a time. Recap: DWM 1917, has mismatched numbers on rear sight. Anybody notice any other "areas of concern"? Thanks. Bob Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2009, 04:41 PM	#2
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wow, it worked! nt Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2009, 04:42 PM	#3
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	3 more nt Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2009, 04:44 PM	#4
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more Look close

12-30-2009, 04:46 PM	#5
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	oops! nt Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2009, 04:50 PM	#6
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	3 more nt Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2009, 04:51 PM	#7
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Last 2 nt Attached Thumbnails

12-30-2009, 05:13 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	The take down lever is not correct for an original but might be explained if the pistol is marked "GERMANY". There also appear to be some issues with the barrel. I would suggest that, using a light and glass, you examine the markings on top of the barrel underneath the rear sight. Those numbers will confirm if the barrel is original to the pistol.

12-30-2009, 07:42 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Have to agree with George. The barrel shows signs of being worked on, a possible replacement.

01-04-2010, 09:14 PM	#10
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What? No comment? Guys, I know it has been the holidays and all, but I'm a little underwhelmed by the lack of response to my post. I thank Mr. Anderson and Mr. Vlim for their input, but jeez....... There's gotta be some more artillery experten out there. And if you've looked at my pics and think the gun is messed up, just let me know. I can take it. Well, maybe.... Rant off. Bob

01-04-2010, 09:24 PM	#11
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,603 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Bob, I guess no one wants to be the bearer of bad news, but since you ask, here goes. The barrel looks to have been renumbered to match the frame. This, of course, would also explain the mismatched rear sight. Regards, Norm

01-04-2010, 10:04 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Bob, I like every Artillery I come accross..Some better than others. Like Norm I don't want to be overly critical. Many collectors have NO Artillery so you are lucky to have one! The rear sight ramp, with the graduated numbers has been monkeyed with. It should be in the white with the numbers blackned. It appears to have been blued? It's odd that the takedown lever is marked on the underside in the commercial manner... Like George says, take a close look at your barrel. It's been messed with in some way. Get a nice original stock and holster for it and see how it likes the range! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-05-2010, 04:29 PM	#13
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Bob Is there a notch cut in the top of the receiver for the rear sight? It is most likely there I just can not see it in any of the pictures. I would like to see a better picture of the end of the rear toggle? thanks Vern

01-07-2010, 04:06 PM	#14
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some speculation from the microscope OK, I asked for it. Too bad you guys can’t hear me banging my head against the wall. Thanks much to all who commented. And to LugerVern, yes the receiver has been notched for the rear sight, the rear toggle has no V sight. I just got done looking at the afflicted area under a medium-power microscope, and have determined the following: · The area under the barrel and receiver have an index mark; it lines up, but wasn’t struck at the same time (that is, looks rematched) · The area under the barrel has a bore diameter marking of 8.84; however, the top (toward the muzzle) approximate one-half of the stamping has been filed and/or buffed out · The serial number (2370) has been badly struck over partially filed or buffed-out numbers, which appear to be 1741 · The 0 is a different font from the 0 on the side of the receiver · The h below the serial number has been buffed almost to obliteration (and why is there a letter here? I thought they were only marked on the front of the frame?) · The h in the serial number is a different font than the h on the frame, which actually may be a k · The eagle (?) marking on the side of the barrel is different from the one on the right side of the receiver So, 1) the original number 1741, the h, and the 8.84 were partially filed (file marks observable) and then buffed; then 2) the number 2370 was very sloppily struck over the former numbers; and finally 3) the affected area was touch-up blued. So the barrel is a force-match to the rest of the gun. Also explains the mismatched sight parts. But who would go to all the trouble to renumber a barrel and do it so badly? And to leave remnants of the previous markings? Seems to me that you could remove the serial number and keep the 8.84 intact, but they didn’t. Like they didn’t care what it looked like. I’m probably reading too much into this, but this looks to me like an arsenal repair/rework job. If it was some present-day scumbag trying to boost a gun they would have done a better job. A German armorer wouldn’t care what it looked like, just so it’s fixed and functioning (and properly serialized). Any comments? Thanks for reading. This post is entitled, “Grabbing at Straws”. Bob

01-07-2010, 04:14 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	A German armorer wouldn’t care what it looked like, just so it’s fixed and functioning (and properly serialized). I couldn't disagree more. This was a hack job by bubba. A German armorer would have the proper tools & CARE what it looked like , proud of the end result. Don't fool yourself into thinking this is an arsenal repair/rework job. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-07-2010, 05:01 PM	#16
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	[QUOTE=George Anderson;171301... I would suggest that, using a light and glass, you examine the markings on top of the barrel underneath the rear sight. Those numbers will confirm if the barrel is original to the pistol.[/QUOTE] If you want to confirm the originality of the barrel I suggest that you take the adivice already given. The answer is under the sight.

01-07-2010, 05:06 PM	#17
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Under the sight? Are you telling me to remove the sight from the barrel? If so, how do I do that? Thanks. Bob

01-07-2010, 05:11 PM	#18
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,529 Times in 787 Posts	No. Simply elevate the sight to its maximum and then using a light and glass determine what the numbers are on the top of the barrel beneath the sight. I am not referring to numbers on the sight base but on the barrel.

01-07-2010, 05:54 PM	#19
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Bob, DO NOT attempt to remove the sight from the barrel unless you know exactly what you are doing! These sights are actually fragile and some are held in with set screws. A good Friend broke a sight base in 4 pieces because he was un aware that a set pin existed. In his defense he was un able to raise the sight ladder to see it.. Just do what George says... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-07-2010, 07:00 PM	#20
Weasel505 User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just gets better and better Thanks for the warning about removing the sight. I've gotten so wrapped up in this I probably would have tried it. From what I can see under the sight, with the sight raised to maximum, is: - stamped perpendicular to the barrel (i.e. like the date), the numbers 442 - stamped parallel to the barrel, just above the 442 (toward the muzzle), the number 3. The 3 faces the rear of the gun. Once again, any comments, O Learned Ones? To answer my own question, yes, I'm a bit disappointed, but not terribly so. The pistol is in such great condition. And if this is a reblue job, I'll eat it. I guess I'll just have to be happy with owning the finest friggin' shooter-grade arty ever. Thanks for the help. You guys are great. Bob