Strange lP08

Michael Zeleny · 09-27-2011, 11:56 AM

I took some pictures of strange features on a 1917 lP08 SN 758g. I cannot interpret the backstrap marking: "III.221.116". Nor do I understand the meaning of the cut in the top of the well-fitting sideplate numbered in a slightly different font. Can anyone comment on these traits?

Ron Wood · 09-27-2011, 12:09 PM

The side plate is cut for a sear safety.

Michael Zeleny · 09-27-2011, 12:15 PM

Thank you, Ron. That was a brain fart on my part. Any guesses on the meaning of this modification appearing on an Artillery Luger not otherwise adapted for the Schiwy safety?

George Anderson · 09-27-2011, 12:28 PM

It might be III Battalion, 221st Reserve Infantry Regiment, weapon 116. It could also be a Reichswehr Provional mark or a police marking. It's probably not police. I would bet on my first guess.

ithacaartist · 09-27-2011, 02:16 PM

Michael, you mentioned that the sideplate also displayed a slightly different font. A guess one might hazard is that it has been changed out, using a sideplate from a police gun. This could explain both situations.
David Parker

Michael Zeleny · 09-27-2011, 02:21 PM

The difference is too slight for certainty:

alanint · 09-27-2011, 02:29 PM

Considering that the production periods of the LP08 and the Police modification do not coincide, is there any indication of a depot or arsenal rebuild stamp on the gun?

George Anderson · 09-27-2011, 03:19 PM

Look at the interior of the side plate. If it was made and numbered for a 1917 artillery the partial serial number will be found on the bottum interior edge of the plate. Tell us what you find. Be aware that these internal numbers are very difficult to see.

Michael Zeleny · 09-27-2011, 06:25 PM

There is nothing inside the sideplate, except for the obliquely stamped number 6 seen in this photo.

wlyon · 09-27-2011, 09:39 PM

George
Could you show where these numbers should be. I have an all matching 1917 artillery and do not see any numbers even under magnification. Thanks Bill

George Anderson · 09-28-2011, 10:41 AM

Bill, the side plate pictured is from 1917 LP08 serial number 6586b. As you can see the interior of the side plate is numbered 65 on the lower edge. This pattern is only found on Imperial military DWM Parabellums after 1911.

wlyon · 09-28-2011, 11:38 AM

Thanks George. Appreciate the info. Mine does have a small 3 for serial # 318a. To much to learn and to little time. Thanks Bill

George Anderson · 09-28-2011, 12:06 PM

Bill, the collecting world can sometimes be an evil place. Knowledge is armor.

09-27-2011, 11:56 AM	#1
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 138 Times in 76 Posts	Strange lP08 I took some pictures of strange features on a 1917 lP08 SN 758g. I cannot interpret the backstrap marking: "III.221.116". Nor do I understand the meaning of the cut in the top of the well-fitting sideplate numbered in a slightly different font. Can anyone comment on these traits? __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-27-2011, 12:09 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The side plate is cut for a sear safety. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-27-2011, 12:15 PM	#3
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 138 Times in 76 Posts	Thank you, Ron. That was a brain fart on my part. Any guesses on the meaning of this modification appearing on an Artillery Luger not otherwise adapted for the Schiwy safety? __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-27-2011, 02:21 PM	#6
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 138 Times in 76 Posts	The difference is too slight for certainty: __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-27-2011, 06:25 PM	#9
Michael Zeleny Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 525 Thanks: 129 Thanked 138 Times in 76 Posts	There is nothing inside the sideplate, except for the obliquely stamped number 6 seen in this photo. __________________ Michael Zeleny@post.harvard.edu -- http://larvatus.livejournal.com/ -- 7576 Willow Glen Road, Los Angeles, CA 90046 -- 323.363.1860 All of old. Nothing else ever. Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better. -- Samuel Beckett

09-27-2011, 12:28 PM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	It might be III Battalion, 221st Reserve Infantry Regiment, weapon 116. It could also be a Reichswehr Provional mark or a police marking. It's probably not police. I would bet on my first guess.

09-27-2011, 02:16 PM	#5
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,283 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,477 Times in 1,320 Posts	Michael, you mentioned that the sideplate also displayed a slightly different font. A guess one might hazard is that it has been changed out, using a sideplate from a police gun. This could explain both situations. David Parker

09-27-2011, 02:29 PM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Considering that the production periods of the LP08 and the Police modification do not coincide, is there any indication of a depot or arsenal rebuild stamp on the gun?

09-27-2011, 03:19 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Look at the interior of the side plate. If it was made and numbered for a 1917 artillery the partial serial number will be found on the bottum interior edge of the plate. Tell us what you find. Be aware that these internal numbers are very difficult to see.

09-27-2011, 09:39 PM	#10
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	George Could you show where these numbers should be. I have an all matching 1917 artillery and do not see any numbers even under magnification. Thanks Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

09-28-2011, 10:41 AM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Bill, the side plate pictured is from 1917 LP08 serial number 6586b. As you can see the interior of the side plate is numbered 65 on the lower edge. This pattern is only found on Imperial military DWM Parabellums after 1911. Attached Thumbnails

09-28-2011, 11:38 AM	#12
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Thanks George. Appreciate the info. Mine does have a small 3 for serial # 318a. To much to learn and to little time. Thanks Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

09-28-2011, 12:06 PM	#13
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Bill, the collecting world can sometimes be an evil place. Knowledge is armor.