Questions about my 1917 DWM Artillery - Page 3

Johnny Peppers · 09-07-2002, 09:55 AM

Garfield,
I agree that there needs to be a lot more information gathered on the serial numbers found inside the sideplate of DWM's. I have found that the early DWM's had no number at all, the second digit of a four digit serial number was first added about mid production, and late production has the first two digits. This may not hold up at all under close inspection, but is a start.
My four digit 1911 DWM has no number, my four digit 1914 DWM has the second digit, my three digit 1915 DWM has the first digit, while my four digit 1916 DWM has the first two digits. Maybe Jan could add to this.

miner · 09-07-2002, 10:05 AM

JP & Garfield:
I corrected the error in my earlier post (up too late last night). The actual number stamped on the inside bottom lip of the sideplate is 12. Sorry for the confusion.

Garfield · 09-07-2002, 11:05 PM

Johnny P:

That is interesting info. I will frankly admit that I haven't paid that much attention to the numbers on the inside of the side plates of the Imperial lugers for the reason that they did not seem to follow much of a pattern. Will start writting this info down.

Thank you

Johnny Peppers · 09-08-2002, 12:06 AM

Forgot to include 1917 four digit. It has the first two digits in the sideplate.

Pete Ebbink · 09-08-2002, 11:53 AM

Garfield,

My 1918 DWM artillery (# 5567 b) has the "55" stamped on the inside, bottom lip of the side plate...just in case someone starts tracking this info. on a database...

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

miner · 09-08-2002, 12:39 PM

Having to prepare to go out of town on business for a few days...so I haven't had a chance to do more photos yet. Due to my work & home schedule, it is unlikely that I will have an opportunity anytime soon to take this luger in person to a qualified appraiser, so I have decided that the best way to proceed is to ship it to someone. I am requesting contact info for qualified individuals who could make a professional evaluation and provide me with signed affidavit of their conclusions. Suggestions anyone???

miner · 09-11-2002, 01:33 PM

Doesn't anyone have a recommendation (with contact info) for a professional appraisal for my artillery? Needs to be someone whose credentials are well known in the luger collecting world and will not be intimidated to put it in writing...

Pete Ebbink · 09-11-2002, 08:20 PM

Hello Miner,

Bob Simpson, or his son Brad, may be close enough for you to drive up to Galesburg, IL to do an appraisal of your Arty...

They also have lots of great lugers for sale as well, usually 200+ lugers...

Their web-site is listed as :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/lugerrm.htm

Another fellow close-by is Mr. Tom Heller of this Forum. He lives just outside of St. Louis...Tom is listed in the Forum's "Links & Resources" section...Tom is one of our experts and always seems willing to help out.

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Dwight Gruber · 09-11-2002, 08:58 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Wm. Pete Ebbink:
<strong>They also have lots of great lugers for sale as well, usually 200+ lugers...

Their web-site is listed as :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/lugerrm.htm
</strong><hr></blockquote>

But they haven't updated their online list since July! Brad, if you are listening...hint, hint

--Dwight

wterrell · 09-11-2002, 09:12 PM

Dwight,
I believe that they updated just 2 weeks ago, but alas, it is again in need of an update.

Exxcuuuuuse ME! They updated today! Take a look.

John Sabato · 09-12-2002, 10:06 AM

If my memory serves me, Brad Simpson is still in the Orient on business... (hopefully checking on getting Lugerforum patches produced) so their site must be maintained by his dad or another staffer...

George Anderson · 09-12-2002, 10:44 AM

Brad was in Galesburg yesterday.

Jimbo · 10-13-2002, 03:54 AM

miner,

Being more than a month, have you determined the originality of your 1917 Artillery's finish and sideplate? I would like to know the follow-up your artillery. Thank you.

Jimbo

miner · 10-13-2002, 08:08 AM

I just shipped it to Brad Simpson for an evaluation...should know something in a few days.

Jimbo · 10-13-2002, 03:14 PM

Thanks miner. "Inquiring minds" and all that. Hope for the best! We are rooting for a nice original finish.

Luke · 10-21-2002, 10:25 PM

Miner,

I am sure you will get straight answers from Brad.

We all look forward to your conclusion of this issue.

Good luck,
Luke

miner · 10-22-2002, 03:28 PM

Well folks, the verdict is in...

I received the evaluation/appraisal from Robert Simpson (Simpson Ltd) today on my artillery luger, which has been the focus of debate in this thread.

Mr. Simpsons appraisal was, and I quote...

"In my opinion, the Artillery Luger dated 1917 manufactured by DWM with the serial number of 1240a is original as to factory finish, original parts, etc. Other than normal wear and age it is in the same condition as it left the factory. The exceptions to this are the lack of original matching numbered magazine and the partial obliteration of the 4 proof marks on the right receiver. You asked me to speculate about the reason for the obliteration of the proof marks. My answer is: I don’t know! I’m sorry, but I do not like to speculate."

This evaluation matches the seller's description and the appraised value was slighter more than what I paid. As much as I would have liked to have determined the story behind the peened proof area, I am now satisfied that what I purhased was described accurately and priced fairly.

I realize that this new information will not likely put to rest everyone's doubts and speculations, but I promised to follow up with the appraisal results...and now I have.

Thanks again everyone for all your input and advice.
~miner

Ron Wood · 10-22-2002, 05:10 PM

Congratulations...and it certainly makes me feel better about my observations. Now if only we could figure out those darned punch marks... [img]confused.gif[/img]

wterrell · 10-22-2002, 07:25 PM

Ron, please check your private posts.

09-11-2002, 09:12 PM	#50
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dwight, I believe that they updated just 2 weeks ago, but alas, it is again in need of an update. Exxcuuuuuse ME! They updated today! Take a look. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-12-2002, 10:06 AM	#51
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	If my memory serves me, Brad Simpson is still in the Orient on business... (hopefully checking on getting Lugerforum patches produced) so their site must be maintained by his dad or another staffer... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-21-2002, 10:25 PM	#56
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Miner, I am sure you will get straight answers from Brad. We all look forward to your conclusion of this issue. Good luck, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

10-22-2002, 05:10 PM	#58
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Congratulations...and it certainly makes me feel better about my observations. Now if only we could figure out those darned punch marks... [img]confused.gif[/img] __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-22-2002, 07:25 PM	#59
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ron, please check your private posts. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

09-07-2002, 09:55 AM	#41
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Garfield, I agree that there needs to be a lot more information gathered on the serial numbers found inside the sideplate of DWM's. I have found that the early DWM's had no number at all, the second digit of a four digit serial number was first added about mid production, and late production has the first two digits. This may not hold up at all under close inspection, but is a start. My four digit 1911 DWM has no number, my four digit 1914 DWM has the second digit, my three digit 1915 DWM has the first digit, while my four digit 1916 DWM has the first two digits. Maybe Jan could add to this.

09-07-2002, 10:05 AM	#42
miner User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KY Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	JP & Garfield: I corrected the error in my earlier post (up too late last night). The actual number stamped on the inside bottom lip of the sideplate is 12. Sorry for the confusion.

09-07-2002, 11:05 PM	#43
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Johnny P: That is interesting info. I will frankly admit that I haven't paid that much attention to the numbers on the inside of the side plates of the Imperial lugers for the reason that they did not seem to follow much of a pattern. Will start writting this info down. Thank you

09-08-2002, 12:06 AM	#44
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Forgot to include 1917 four digit. It has the first two digits in the sideplate.

09-08-2002, 11:53 AM	#45
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Garfield, My 1918 DWM artillery (# 5567 b) has the "55" stamped on the inside, bottom lip of the side plate...just in case someone starts tracking this info. on a database... Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

09-08-2002, 12:39 PM	#46
miner User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KY Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Having to prepare to go out of town on business for a few days...so I haven't had a chance to do more photos yet. Due to my work & home schedule, it is unlikely that I will have an opportunity anytime soon to take this luger in person to a qualified appraiser, so I have decided that the best way to proceed is to ship it to someone. I am requesting contact info for qualified individuals who could make a professional evaluation and provide me with signed affidavit of their conclusions. Suggestions anyone???

09-11-2002, 01:33 PM	#47
miner User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KY Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Doesn't anyone have a recommendation (with contact info) for a professional appraisal for my artillery? Needs to be someone whose credentials are well known in the luger collecting world and will not be intimidated to put it in writing...

09-11-2002, 08:20 PM	#48
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Miner, Bob Simpson, or his son Brad, may be close enough for you to drive up to Galesburg, IL to do an appraisal of your Arty... They also have lots of great lugers for sale as well, usually 200+ lugers... Their web-site is listed as : http://www.simpsonltd.com/lugerrm.htm Another fellow close-by is Mr. Tom Heller of this Forum. He lives just outside of St. Louis...Tom is listed in the Forum's "Links & Resources" section...Tom is one of our experts and always seems willing to help out. Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

09-11-2002, 08:58 PM	#49
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Wm. Pete Ebbink: <strong>They also have lots of great lugers for sale as well, usually 200+ lugers... Their web-site is listed as : http://www.simpsonltd.com/lugerrm.htm </strong><hr></blockquote> But they haven't updated their online list since July! Brad, if you are listening...hint, hint --Dwight

09-12-2002, 10:44 AM	#52
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Brad was in Galesburg yesterday.

10-13-2002, 03:54 AM	#53
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	miner, Being more than a month, have you determined the originality of your 1917 Artillery's finish and sideplate? I would like to know the follow-up your artillery. Thank you. Jimbo

10-13-2002, 08:08 AM	#54
miner User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KY Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just shipped it to Brad Simpson for an evaluation...should know something in a few days.

10-13-2002, 03:14 PM	#55
Jimbo User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SF CA Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks miner. "Inquiring minds" and all that. Hope for the best! We are rooting for a nice original finish.

10-22-2002, 03:28 PM	#57
miner User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: KY Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well folks, the verdict is in... I received the evaluation/appraisal from Robert Simpson (Simpson Ltd) today on my artillery luger, which has been the focus of debate in this thread. Mr. Simpsons appraisal was, and I quote... "In my opinion, the Artillery Luger dated 1917 manufactured by DWM with the serial number of 1240a is original as to factory finish, original parts, etc. Other than normal wear and age it is in the same condition as it left the factory. The exceptions to this are the lack of original matching numbered magazine and the partial obliteration of the 4 proof marks on the right receiver. You asked me to speculate about the reason for the obliteration of the proof marks. My answer is: I don’t know! I’m sorry, but I do not like to speculate." This evaluation matches the seller's description and the appraised value was slighter more than what I paid. As much as I would have liked to have determined the story behind the peened proof area, I am now satisfied that what I purhased was described accurately and priced fairly. I realize that this new information will not likely put to rest everyone's doubts and speculations, but I promised to follow up with the appraisal results...and now I have. Thanks again everyone for all your input and advice. ~miner