Rear toggle link pin serial number

drbuster · 06-10-2003, 11:25 PM

Jimbo's thread re Tom Armstrong's pristine Mauser luger with no numbers on the rear toggle link pin caused me to attempt a search for "authoritative" words on the subject. On page 214 of Gortz's encyclopedic book Die Pistole 08 are photos depicting this issue. Apparently, if I can unscramble the German, serial numbers did NOT appear on the rear toggle link pins BEFORE 1932 and DID appear after March 1932. Am I reading this correctly? If true, early Mauser lugers would be correct NOT to have numbers stamped on the rear toggle link pin.

Dwight Gruber · 06-11-2003, 01:02 AM

Herb,

On March 17, 1932, the Ministry of the Army published an instruction requiring toggle-pin heads to be stamped with the last two digits of the serial number. On May 20, 1932, the Police Procurement Office of the Bavarian Ministry of the Interior followed suit for its Police weapons, to be carried out by Police armorers. A corresponding instruction for the Prussian police has not been discovered, though the action is likely. (This information from GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans, "German Small Arms Markings", pp.131-132).

Mauser military production commenced in 1934 with the S/42 K code (Still, "Third Reich Lugers"). Therefore, -all- Mauser army Lugers will properly have the number-stamped toggle pin.

Mauser commercial/Weimar Police production began about 1930, in the v block serial range. Determining whether or not strictly commercial pistols were so stamped will be a matter of survey and report, unless somebody actually knows--I was not able to find documentation.

One would expect Police pistols, of whatever source or age, to be number stamped. My u block (1929 DWM/BKIW), for instance, has the numbers.

--Dwight

drbuster · 06-11-2003, 03:25 AM

Thanks Dwight for your very informative remarks. From my point of view, this issue is settled.

drbuster · 06-11-2003, 09:10 AM

Dwight, by the way, my "41" Mauser banner commercial, 695 "y" DOES have "95" on the rear togle link pin.

Frank · 06-11-2003, 09:42 AM

Nice information!! I also have a Police BKIW in the U-Block that has the numbered pin!! All Military Mausers K-Date and up should also have numbered pins. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

Heinz · 06-11-2003, 09:45 PM

My 1915 Police re-issue has a numbered toggle pin. Probably re-issued around 1935 from its characteristics. I theorize (guess) that the toggle pin was considered a wear prone part and therefore was not originally serial marked. Goertz and Bryans note on page 132 that a range of oversize pins was available, from 0.05mm to 0.2mm over the nominal 7.18 mm pin.

Numbering seems to have been added to prevent the mixing of toggle pins. With some being oversized, that could be a problem. But indicate that a number of pistols were being stripped at once somewhere in the police environment.

I also wonder if magazines were not unloaded in service but turned in when going off duty and stored. When going back on duty magazines were reissued. The police may have kept the numbers straight, but think about the trenches in 1917 and 1918. I bet you didn't tell the sergeant you wanted the matching numbered mag.

06-10-2003, 11:25 PM	#1
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Rear toggle link pin serial number Jimbo's thread re Tom Armstrong's pristine Mauser luger with no numbers on the rear toggle link pin caused me to attempt a search for "authoritative" words on the subject. On page 214 of Gortz's encyclopedic book Die Pistole 08 are photos depicting this issue. Apparently, if I can unscramble the German, serial numbers did NOT appear on the rear toggle link pins BEFORE 1932 and DID appear after March 1932. Am I reading this correctly? If true, early Mauser lugers would be correct NOT to have numbers stamped on the rear toggle link pin.

06-11-2003, 01:02 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Herb, On March 17, 1932, the Ministry of the Army published an instruction requiring toggle-pin heads to be stamped with the last two digits of the serial number. On May 20, 1932, the Police Procurement Office of the Bavarian Ministry of the Interior followed suit for its Police weapons, to be carried out by Police armorers. A corresponding instruction for the Prussian police has not been discovered, though the action is likely. (This information from GÃ?Â¶rtz & Bryans, "German Small Arms Markings", pp.131-132). Mauser military production commenced in 1934 with the S/42 K code (Still, "Third Reich Lugers"). Therefore, -all- Mauser army Lugers will properly have the number-stamped toggle pin. Mauser commercial/Weimar Police production began about 1930, in the v block serial range. Determining whether or not strictly commercial pistols were so stamped will be a matter of survey and report, unless somebody actually knows--I was not able to find documentation. One would expect Police pistols, of whatever source or age, to be number stamped. My u block (1929 DWM/BKIW), for instance, has the numbers. --Dwight

06-11-2003, 03:25 AM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks Dwight for your very informative remarks. From my point of view, this issue is settled.

06-11-2003, 09:10 AM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Dwight, by the way, my "41" Mauser banner commercial, 695 "y" DOES have "95" on the rear togle link pin.

06-11-2003, 09:42 AM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Nice information!! I also have a Police BKIW in the U-Block that has the numbered pin!! All Military Mausers K-Date and up should also have numbered pins. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

06-11-2003, 09:45 PM	#6
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	My 1915 Police re-issue has a numbered toggle pin. Probably re-issued around 1935 from its characteristics. I theorize (guess) that the toggle pin was considered a wear prone part and therefore was not originally serial marked. Goertz and Bryans note on page 132 that a range of oversize pins was available, from 0.05mm to 0.2mm over the nominal 7.18 mm pin. Numbering seems to have been added to prevent the mixing of toggle pins. With some being oversized, that could be a problem. But indicate that a number of pistols were being stripped at once somewhere in the police environment. I also wonder if magazines were not unloaded in service but turned in when going off duty and stored. When going back on duty magazines were reissued. The police may have kept the numbers straight, but think about the trenches in 1917 and 1918. I bet you didn't tell the sergeant you wanted the matching numbered mag.