Artillery luger question

Exactly what is different other than the long barrel on an artillery luger in comparision to a standard model.

[Thor]

Well for one, the receiver has a cut on it at the top to allow the rear sight to be lowered to the the lowest setting, many Erfurt receivers were done this way on all models, not just the long barrelled ones. Thor

[Thor]

and of course the rear tangent sight! ~Thor~

[Johnny Peppers]

The LP08 or "Artillery" also came with a holster/shoulder stock outfit with the stock attaching iron serial numbered to the pistol.

[Thor]

They were made by DWM from 1914 to 1918 and by Erfurt in 1914, I think! ~Thor~

[G.T.]

Hi Rick! The .30 artilleries were identical to the 9mm in every respect, except for the caliber, I don't know if the had the fine tune sights? Perhaps some of the other members know! till...later...G.T.

[Patrick]

... some made by Mauser (for Persia) - but the barrel was DWM left over stock. The front sight is also different (the front sight adjusting tool does not fit). Otherwise you can take an LP 08 barrel assy and fit it on a P 08 grip.

[G.T.]

Hi again Rick! I don't think you will find to much in print about the .30 art. as I have not seen to much on it....the only reason I know a little bit about them is I (actually my father) had one when I was a kid....although memories are often cloudy, it seems to me that it shot great, and I don't remember it ever jamming....I do know that the top half was one serial number and the frame another....also it had stag grips which were not all that comfortable as I remember....I do remember that it shot flat, fast, and accurate....I would like another some day, but unless you take into consideration Ralph's wall display, I have never seen another one outside of that, much less for sale!! I think they are a great gun....maybe the Luger fairy will put one under the tree this winter.....till...later...G.T.

[Johnny Peppers]

The two things that set the LP08 apart from all other Lugers is the 8" barrel in combination with the tangent rear sight. An interesting part of the tangent sight is the fact that the pin that the tangent sight hinges on is drilled eccentric so that the tangent sight moves up and to the left as raised to compensate for rotational drift of the bullet.

[Big Norm]

To the best of my knoledge, only the 1908 and the 1920 commercial artillary lugers came in 30 cal and they are rare. Congratulations if you have one.


I think that the stock was made by an outside contractor as were the holsters. I do not believe that all artillaries came with a stock and a holster. I could be wrong on this point.


Physically, everyone is correct. But there is a proof mark on the side of the barrel that looks like a line drawing of a man. Since all artillary barrels were made at the Erfurt royal factory, then all artillary barrels have this proof mark. Possible exception being the Fausi artillary which was made in 1936. I think that the Erfurt factory and machinery may have been gone by then.I will check out my 1920 commercial 9mm later to also verify that one.


Big Norm

[Kyrie]

Hi Tom,


Military Artilleries differ from the common, run of the mill, four inch barreled Lugers thusly:


1) Eight inch barrel,


2) Tangent sight graduated from 100 to 800 meters, in 100 meter increments (the lowest setting of 50 meters is unmarked),


3) The rear tangent sight and/or front sight may or may not be "fine tune" adjustable (see the photos and narrative),


4) The front, top, of the barrel extension will have a "nibble" milled out to allow the rear sight to sit all the way down at its lowest adjustment,


5) There will be no rear sight on the last toggle link,


6) In rare cases the grip panels will be marked with a big "9", filled with red paint, and


7) Issue accessories may include a drum magazine, a board stock (or rarely a holster/stock - but this is more a commercial option), two or four spare (standard) magazines, and the leather to hold all this.


Commercial Artilleries are a different subject. By and large, Commercial Artilleries are identical to military Artilleries, save they will be commercially proofed and are sometimes encountered in 7.65 mm Parabellum rather than 9 mm Parabellum.


The exception to this are what collectors call the "1920 Commercial Artillery." These Artilleries may or may not have the tangent rear sight. Those without the tangent rear sight are technically not "Artilleries" at all, but collectors call them Artilleries to differentiate the 1920 Commercial Lugers with eight inch barrels from those with shorter barrels (these sometimes called "Navies" when found with a six inch barrel) or longer barrels (called by collectors "Long Barreled 1920 Commercials").


As you can see, when it comes to Lugers nothing is quite as simple as we'd like it [wry smile]. But I hope this helps some!


Best regards,


Kyrie

Well there goes my bright idea of building one out of standard shooter. Sarco has some artillery barrels and also artillery rear sights. But I guess I'd just end up with an expensive mutant. Guess I'll just keep dreaming. TomN

[Hugh]

All you need is the aforementioned Arty bbl and sight, an Erfurt Luger with the "nibble" at the front, and file the rear sight off the toggle. VIOLA! A fake Artillery Luger!

[Johnny Peppers]

According to recent reports an all matching Erfurt LP08 sold at the Rock Island Auction for $11,000. This shows that it is getting exceedingly rare to find the complete original outfit as issued. As the holsters deteriorated with age over the years, the board shoulder stock became seperated from the weapon, and finding an LP08 with even just it's original matching stock and numbered attaching iron is rare today.

The military LP08 holster/shoulder stock was an integral rig in that the shoulder strap was fastened through the shoulder stock to the holster, and the holster was actually fastened to the shoulder stock. It was not intended that it be taken apart for use, but due to attrition we normally see the shoulder stock minus it's holster and strap. The flap of the holster was held down by a strap sewn to the holster body, and a leather flap with a stud fastener that was screwed to the shoulder board. LP08 holsters are sometimes seen with later modifications which allowed the holster to be attached to a belt.

TWIMC, The subject of Commerical production LPO8s is a tricky one. I have seen both military marked LPO8 that were marked "Germany" for export after WW1 and some of these may have been relined to 7.65 somewhere along the way. Some collector's consider these as Commerical LPO8s. It must also be remembered that all German pistol manufactures were severly resticted after WW1 by the provisions of the Versailles Tready that prohibited production of barrel of 100mm (4") or over. So their NEW PRODUCTION COMMERICALS, usually Crown over N proofed on the left receiver, would have left Germany with either 95 or 98mm barrels. Both Stoeger and Pacific Arms catalogs offered the option of instalation here in the USA, of longer barrels in either 7.65 or 9mm from 4 to 22" in two inch increments. The 8" barrels could be had either with or without tangent rear sights and often the rear link rear sight was left on. Generally, these long barrel shooters did have the Tangent rear sight which was different in 2 respects from the military LPO8: the push buttom was on the opposite (right) side of the slider (elevator) which was NOT attached to the base by the bottom of the slider.

[Kyrie]

Hi Folks,


When it comes to commercial Artilleries, expect anything. I just tried to upload a photo I though folks might find interesting but could not for some reason. It's not very good, but shows a Stoeger Arty rear sight. Right side push button - and the 1000 meter graduation! If anyone wants a copy just e-mail me and I'll send it along as an attachment


Best regards,


Kyrie

Thanks Hugh. A fake one is a lot better than a picture of a real one any day. TomN

[John Sabato]

as you can create that with the careful application of a file as well. Just find a 1914 Erfurt or a 1917 DWM to start with.