New mark to me

Tango3 · 09-26-2016, 09:57 PM

I'm new to Lugers so there's lots I don't know and I've been reading everything I can get my hands on to rectify this. I did run across a Luger that had what I assume is the manufacturers mark that I'd never read about and its roused my curiosity. It's an oval with a capital H and D in it. Anyone??

Eric

DonVoigt · 09-26-2016, 11:07 PM

Can't answer with no picture; does not sound at all familiar.

Edward Tinker · 09-27-2016, 12:52 PM

made it so you'll get notified

where is it marked? Makers marking would be on toggle to me?

Marked on left or right? That sounds like a unit or factory marking (factory such as issued to their guards, there are known examples)

Tango3 · 09-27-2016, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

made it so you'll get notified

where is it marked? Makers marking would be on toggle to me?

Marked on left or right? That sounds like a unit or factory marking (factory such as issued to their guards, there are known examples)

Marked on the very front of the frame directly below the barrel with the pistol assembled. The weapon is marked "Made in Austria" on the bottom of the barrel. I see no mark on the toggle.

Eric

Lugerdoc · 09-28-2016, 10:27 AM

Eric, It sounds like you have a new Bohler barrel in your PO8, probably installed by "HB". TH

Tango3 · 09-28-2016, 11:15 AM

Thanks, Tom. Is a Bohler barrel a quality part?

Eric

mrerick · 09-28-2016, 12:18 PM

Bohler made high quality steel. It is often associated with barrel steel.

John Sabato · 09-28-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango3

Thanks, Tom. Is a Bohler barrel a quality part?

Eric

I doubt you could find a better replacement barrel than a Bohler... unless it is custom made. They are good stuff.

Tango3 · 09-28-2016, 02:52 PM

Thanks, Marc and John. The members of this Forum sure are generous with their knowledge. Lugers as a class of weapons are quite complicated for a simple 1911 guy.

Eric

DonVoigt · 09-28-2016, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tango3

Thanks, Marc and John. The members of this Forum sure are generous with their knowledge. Lugers as a class of weapons are quite complicated for a simple 1911 guy.

Eric

Eric,
I can't agree; there are as many or more ins and outs of the 1911, IMO.

Historical pistols have a myriad of differences, as do their parts- and they are not numbered to help determine if original to the pistol or not.

Fast forward to today, and the endless variety and variable qualities and configurations of pistols, sights, barrels, calibers, etc- and there is no end to 1911 variation!

Simple indeed.

Tango3 · 09-28-2016, 10:44 PM

Correct, Don, there are a lot of modern 1911s out there but they're not the least complicated to me due to the years I've spent with them. I can't say the same for the early 1911s since I wasn't interested in the collecting end of things but in shooting them. As you say, not having a parts numbering system like the Luger makes it harder to know what you're getting.

On the other hand, the Luger is a whole new thing to me and trying to wrap my head around so much makes them complicated seeming. Someday I hope to get to the point in my Luger experience where I'll look back to this time and chuckle at how it could have seemed so complicated.

For instance, why is the German word "gesundheit" on the thumb safety since I believe it means health?

Eric

Ron Wood · 09-29-2016, 01:07 AM

Bless you! Luger complication is nothing to sneeze about.

mrerick · 09-29-2016, 09:39 AM

No, it's not gesundheit... look closer...

"sicherheit" means "Safety"...

In the same sense that the romance languages are rooted in Latin, German and English are both rooted in old English. This has some interesting consequences, including similar sounding words that mean completely different and unrelated things.

Marc

John Sabato · 09-29-2016, 10:38 AM

All, the word under the safety lever is correctly spelled "Gesichert" which Google properly translates to English as "Secured"

DonVoigt · 09-29-2016, 10:39 AM

Tango3,
I think you are "hooked" enough to buy several books and start studying the ins and outs of lugerdom.

DonVoigt · 09-29-2016, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

All, the word under the safety lever is correctly spelled "Gesichert" which Google properly translates to English as "Secured"

Well of course Google is always correct- as it is the internet!

DWM decided to put "SAFE" in English in the same spot as "Gesichert" on some of the pistols sold into the English speaking world- so I do believe in the context of the Luger safety marking that
Gesichert means Safe!

cirelaw · 09-29-2016, 10:50 AM

Here is a picture of an Austrian barrel on a shooter. Is this the same as yours?

John Sabato · 09-29-2016, 01:03 PM

Don,

Although I am not fluent in the German language, I was obliged to study the language for about 4 years way back in the middle of the last century....the German word "sicher" does as you indicate mean "safe" (or "secure") The use of the prefix Ge- as in Gesichert, indicates the past tense in a similar manner that the suffix -ed does in English....Therefore the appropriate translation of the word in German context would be "secured" or made safe. In a similar manner, the use of the "Geladen" on the extractor is translated as "loaded".

The use of the word "SAFE" on the guns intended for export to the USA, is intended to mimic those guns made in the USA where the word SAFE was used. Not many firearms made in this country were manufactured with loaded chamber indicators, so the Germans really didn't know what to mimic. They literally translated "Geladen" into the word "Loaded"...

I can't point you to a reference for this speculation, but my rusty (not trusty) German language skills combined with my small arms history knowledge and experience are the basis for my opinion.

So in the context of German language, the 'Gesichert" label in use for the Luger safety would be translated as "secured" (or "safe") in the American context.

Now if that didn't totally confuse you... I will try harder to raise the level of obfuscation on the issue in my next installment.

Dwight Gruber · 09-29-2016, 01:29 PM

Gesichert also = locked cf http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_en.ht...ingle=on&pos=0

--Dwight

kurusu · 09-29-2016, 02:20 PM

And I think Tango3 was just joking.

Anyways, the early Portuguese Lugers say seguranca which means safety.

09-26-2016, 09:57 PM	#1
Tango3 User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Michigan (Native American for "too much winter") Posts: 51 Thanks: 90 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	New mark to me I'm new to Lugers so there's lots I don't know and I've been reading everything I can get my hands on to rectify this. I did run across a Luger that had what I assume is the manufacturers mark that I'd never read about and its roused my curiosity. It's an oval with a capital H and D in it. Anyone?? Eric Last edited by Edward Tinker; 09-27-2016 at 12:51 PM.

09-26-2016, 11:07 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Can't answer with no picture; does not sound at all familiar. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-28-2016, 10:27 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Eric, It sounds like you have a new Bohler barrel in your PO8, probably installed by "HB". TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

09-28-2016, 12:18 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Bohler made high quality steel. It is often associated with barrel steel. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-29-2016, 01:07 AM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,019 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Bless you! Luger complication is nothing to sneeze about. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-27-2016, 12:52 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,930 Thanks: 2,030 Thanked 4,527 Times in 2,090 Posts	made it so you'll get notified where is it marked? Makers marking would be on toggle to me? Marked on left or right? That sounds like a unit or factory marking (factory such as issued to their guards, there are known examples)

09-28-2016, 11:15 AM	#6
Tango3 User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Michigan (Native American for "too much winter") Posts: 51 Thanks: 90 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	Thanks, Tom. Is a Bohler barrel a quality part? Eric

09-28-2016, 02:52 PM	#9
Tango3 User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Michigan (Native American for "too much winter") Posts: 51 Thanks: 90 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	Thanks, Marc and John. The members of this Forum sure are generous with their knowledge. Lugers as a class of weapons are quite complicated for a simple 1911 guy. Eric

09-28-2016, 10:44 PM	#11
Tango3 User Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Michigan (Native American for "too much winter") Posts: 51 Thanks: 90 Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts	Correct, Don, there are a lot of modern 1911s out there but they're not the least complicated to me due to the years I've spent with them. I can't say the same for the early 1911s since I wasn't interested in the collecting end of things but in shooting them. As you say, not having a parts numbering system like the Luger makes it harder to know what you're getting. On the other hand, the Luger is a whole new thing to me and trying to wrap my head around so much makes them complicated seeming. Someday I hope to get to the point in my Luger experience where I'll look back to this time and chuckle at how it could have seemed so complicated. For instance, why is the German word "gesundheit" on the thumb safety since I believe it means health? Eric

09-29-2016, 09:39 AM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	No, it's not gesundheit... look closer... "sicherheit" means "Safety"... In the same sense that the romance languages are rooted in Latin, German and English are both rooted in old English. This has some interesting consequences, including similar sounding words that mean completely different and unrelated things. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-29-2016, 10:38 AM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	All, the word under the safety lever is correctly spelled "Gesichert" which Google properly translates to English as "Secured" Attached Thumbnails __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-29-2016, 10:39 AM	#15
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Tango3, I think you are "hooked" enough to buy several books and start studying the ins and outs of lugerdom. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

09-29-2016, 10:50 AM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Here is a picture of an Austrian barrel on a shooter. Is this the same as yours? Attached Thumbnails

09-29-2016, 01:03 PM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Don, Although I am not fluent in the German language, I was obliged to study the language for about 4 years way back in the middle of the last century....the German word "sicher" does as you indicate mean "safe" (or "secure") The use of the prefix Ge- as in Gesichert, indicates the past tense in a similar manner that the suffix -ed does in English....Therefore the appropriate translation of the word in German context would be "secured" or made safe. In a similar manner, the use of the "Geladen" on the extractor is translated as "loaded". The use of the word "SAFE" on the guns intended for export to the USA, is intended to mimic those guns made in the USA where the word SAFE was used. Not many firearms made in this country were manufactured with loaded chamber indicators, so the Germans really didn't know what to mimic. They literally translated "Geladen" into the word "Loaded"... I can't point you to a reference for this speculation, but my rusty (not trusty) German language skills combined with my small arms history knowledge and experience are the basis for my opinion. So in the context of German language, the 'Gesichert" label in use for the Luger safety would be translated as "secured" (or "safe") in the American context. Now if that didn't totally confuse you... I will try harder to raise the level of obfuscation on the issue in my next installment. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-29-2016, 01:29 PM	#19
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,313 Times in 430 Posts	Gesichert also = locked cf http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_en.ht...ingle=on&pos=0 --Dwight

09-29-2016, 02:20 PM	#20
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	And I think Tango3 was just joking. Anyways, the early Portuguese Lugers say seguranca which means safety.