DWM 1921 used by Berlin Schutzpolizei 1945-8, then East German Volkpolizei "Vopo"

DonVoigt · 05-29-2016, 11:18 PM

Found this one at one of the small shows, not too far away!

Started life as a Weimar Military contract pistol by DWM produced in 1921, then captured and used by the Soviet controlled Berlin Police under the Allied Control Commission from 1945 to 1948. After the division of Berlin with the founding of the DDR, served the Volkspolizei or Vopo afterwards. Re-barrel and re-finished about July 1953.

Soon after the DDR relegated the P 08 from first line to "replacement" status when it was replaced by the Russian TT33 type pistol. In 1956 it was further relegated to "reserve" status when the Makarov was adopted as the issue pistol.

An interesting pistol which served Germany under three masters and then sold to the US via CAI as indicated by the import markings on the bottom of the barrel.

Other observations:
Front Grip Strap marked with oakleaf circle with o in center, and “S” and “V” (roman numeral 5 for the 5th district of Berlin under Soviet control- Marked with DDR inspection shields on each side of chamber and rear of left side of frame.

Pistol is matching except for the grips and the rear toggle piece which is "08". According to Police Lugers, "pistols of this force(i.e. the postwar Berlin police)" may have mis-matched repairs. It is still curious why the later Vopo re-work did not result in a strike out; or perhaps it is just a later replacement in an otherwise matching pistol

From Luger board 2008, regarding a similarly marked pistol with XVII :

“just to finish the question on the front grip strap, this is a Berlin post-war police marking, as mentioned before. The gun was used in the soviet occupied sector (S). There should be similar markings starting with a "F" for the french sector or a "B" for the british sector. The marking in the american sector was a little bit different and was like "B A x Star", were the B is for Berlin, the A is for american sector and the x was one of the first characters of the municipality/police inspectorate of the six municipalities in the american sector. The roman number in the french, british and soviet sector also names one of the municipalities/police inspectorates. Berlin in that time consisted of 20 municipalities/police inspectorates. The numbering started with Mitte in the center having the "I" (roman one) and went then outwards. The roman 17 on your gun belongs to Lichtenberg.

The marking is in accordance with a marking order from 1946 and was only valid until the splitting of the city into the eastern and western part in summer 1948. In the western part then a new type of star was used and there were no more roman numerals or characters used for the municipality/police inspectorate, only the letter A or B for the American or the British sector(or F for the French).
greetings from Berlin/Germany,
Andy"
More information is to be found in Police Lugers by Tinker/Gruber pp 271-273.

Your comments, observations, and additions are welcome!

Dwight Gruber · 05-30-2016, 01:56 AM

Don,

Congratulations on the very nice Berlin Soviet sector Police Luger. It is noteworthy that the sunburst armorers' stamps have not been obliterated. It is also interesting that one of these stamps has been used to cancel the right receiver power proof after rebarreling by the DVP.

--Dwight

Edward Tinker · 05-30-2016, 08:31 AM

very nice example, I have seen them marked with two sunbursts vopo, one each, but never two as clear as these and on opposite sides is weird.

The S V is also an oddity being on front grip

Overall, great find!

Schupo · 07-31-2016, 10:28 AM

I have never seen one of these early Berlin Police property stamps (SV, A, F, or B) that was cancelled. I take it from that the pistols remained in the Berlin Police property room and service. At least that would make sense of this fact and go along with the pre-war practice of the Polizei. A neat Volkspolizei variation P.08 that shows long use with the very early S Zone of occupation marking on the grip as well as the later Suhl Volkspolizei Armory reworking with the 1953 barrel and star armorer proofs.

alanint · 07-31-2016, 01:33 PM

More incredible is that the pistol's matching, spare magazine was not split off at the time of import by C.A.I.

05-29-2016, 11:18 PM	#1
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	DWM 1921 used by Berlin Schutzpolizei 1945-8, then East German Volkpolizei "Vopo" Found this one at one of the small shows, not too far away! Started life as a Weimar Military contract pistol by DWM produced in 1921, then captured and used by the Soviet controlled Berlin Police under the Allied Control Commission from 1945 to 1948. After the division of Berlin with the founding of the DDR, served the Volkspolizei or Vopo afterwards. Re-barrel and re-finished about July 1953. Soon after the DDR relegated the P 08 from first line to "replacement" status when it was replaced by the Russian TT33 type pistol. In 1956 it was further relegated to "reserve" status when the Makarov was adopted as the issue pistol. An interesting pistol which served Germany under three masters and then sold to the US via CAI as indicated by the import markings on the bottom of the barrel. Other observations: Front Grip Strap marked with oakleaf circle with o in center, and “S” and “V” (roman numeral 5 for the 5th district of Berlin under Soviet control- Marked with DDR inspection shields on each side of chamber and rear of left side of frame. Pistol is matching except for the grips and the rear toggle piece which is "08". According to Police Lugers, "pistols of this force(i.e. the postwar Berlin police)" may have mis-matched repairs. It is still curious why the later Vopo re-work did not result in a strike out; or perhaps it is just a later replacement in an otherwise matching pistol From Luger board 2008, regarding a similarly marked pistol with XVII : “just to finish the question on the front grip strap, this is a Berlin post-war police marking, as mentioned before. The gun was used in the soviet occupied sector (S). There should be similar markings starting with a "F" for the french sector or a "B" for the british sector. The marking in the american sector was a little bit different and was like "B A x Star", were the B is for Berlin, the A is for american sector and the x was one of the first characters of the municipality/police inspectorate of the six municipalities in the american sector. The roman number in the french, british and soviet sector also names one of the municipalities/police inspectorates. Berlin in that time consisted of 20 municipalities/police inspectorates. The numbering started with Mitte in the center having the "I" (roman one) and went then outwards. The roman 17 on your gun belongs to Lichtenberg. The marking is in accordance with a marking order from 1946 and was only valid until the splitting of the city into the eastern and western part in summer 1948. In the western part then a new type of star was used and there were no more roman numerals or characters used for the municipality/police inspectorate, only the letter A or B for the American or the British sector(or F for the French). greetings from Berlin/Germany, Andy" More information is to be found in Police Lugers by Tinker/Gruber pp 271-273. Your comments, observations, and additions are welcome! Attached Thumbnails __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-30-2016, 08:31 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	very nice example, I have seen them marked with two sunbursts vopo, one each, but never two as clear as these and on opposite sides is weird. The S V is also an oddity being on front grip Overall, great find! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-31-2016, 10:28 AM	#4
Schupo User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Kansas City Metro Posts: 206 Thanks: 1 Thanked 102 Times in 47 Posts	I have never seen one of these early Berlin Police property stamps (SV, A, F, or B) that was cancelled. I take it from that the pistols remained in the Berlin Police property room and service. At least that would make sense of this fact and go along with the pre-war practice of the Polizei. A neat Volkspolizei variation P.08 that shows long use with the very early S Zone of occupation marking on the grip as well as the later Suhl Volkspolizei Armory reworking with the 1953 barrel and star armorer proofs. __________________ "You can't please everyone, so you have got to please yourself." Ricky Nelson

05-30-2016, 01:56 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Don, Congratulations on the very nice Berlin Soviet sector Police Luger. It is noteworthy that the sunburst armorers' stamps have not been obliterated. It is also interesting that one of these stamps has been used to cancel the right receiver power proof after rebarreling by the DVP. --Dwight

07-31-2016, 01:33 PM	#5
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	More incredible is that the pistol's matching, spare magazine was not split off at the time of import by C.A.I.