Ballpark-ish estimate on 1916 DWM?

rufrdr · 01-08-2017, 01:27 AM

A friend has a 1916 DWM that he may want to let go. I haven't seen it in person yet but the pictures he's shared seem to show a 99% finish condition including very nice grips with all exterior numbers matching including the magazine. It is a WW1 bring-back.

Rough value range? I don't want to share the pics since the pistol isn't mine and may never be.

Thanks

Norme · 01-08-2017, 08:39 AM

Hi Karl,
That's like asking "How much is a house in Spain?" as my father used to say. To start with, does it have a 4, 6 or 8 inch barrel?
Regards, Norm

mrerick · 01-08-2017, 09:50 AM

Many variables. To be collectible should have all matching numbers, all original parts, original finish with as high a coverage as possible. Refinish puts it into shooter category.

DWM made P.08 military Lugers, LP.08 and Navy Lugers in that year. Which is it?

rufrdr · 01-08-2017, 12:54 PM

Sorry, should have been more specific. It is a 4" barrel standard GI type DWM marked 1916. Finish in the pictures appears to be original with very minimal wear, all markings crisp and sharp. It has been in the family since bringing it back from WW1.

I will hopefully be seeing it this week and if I do I'll provide more details.

Thanks!

mrerick · 01-08-2017, 02:05 PM

Post pictures. If it's all matching (including the grips), and in high original finish condition they range from $1500 to much more depending on whether the magazine is matching and exactly how much wear is visible.

The entire serial number will be on a matching side plate. The first two digits stamped inside toward the bottom in a curved area, and the last two on the outside.

You'll need to post pictures to get anywhere near an accurate estimate on this.

Marc

RShaw · 01-31-2017, 11:37 PM

Karl....if I may ask....
What happened finally with your friend's 1916 DWM?

rufrdr · 02-01-2017, 12:18 AM

I got to see it briefly today and held it for a minute or two. I didn't get a chance to look down the bore but the overall condition of the piece is very nice. The finish is a dull blue. He'd like me to strip it down, clean and lube it at some point soon so at that time I'll have a better idea of what he has. It is a 1916 dated piece with the 4 digit SN 9xxx.

Here are two pictures of the pistol that he sent to me:

RShaw · 02-01-2017, 02:34 AM

Yes... looks very nice for sure! I do notice that the left grip has the classic "million dollar chip" just under the safety lever. This would bring the value down somewhat. There are experts on this forum who could repair that I think. Other than that- finish looks good... when you say it is a dull blue, could mean it's been refinished- doesn't look like that from your photos though. Matching magazine too? If so, that would increase the value significantly. If I were you I would go after it.... seems to be more a collectible than a shooter- that question would be settled after checking it according to Marc's post above.

wlyon · 02-01-2017, 09:56 AM

My best guess on this is refinished. Color looks wrong for a ww1 luger. May just be the pictures., Bill

RShaw · 02-01-2017, 10:14 AM

This is exactly where it gets difficult for those who have not seen so many examples of refinished pistols versus originals. Judging by a photo adds another layer of difficulty

)
Once I have my refinished DWM home I would like to make photos which match the appearance of the pieces themselves to what they really look like in normal daylight- (by a window on an overcast day)

Sergio Natali · 02-01-2017, 11:47 AM

I would agree with Bill, that finish colour doesn't convince me for a WWI Luger, would be interesting to see better an more detailed pictures taken without flash at a closer distance. IMHO.

DavidJayUden · 02-01-2017, 11:59 AM

Based on the 2 photos I'm not seeing anything wrong or scary about the gun. Yes there are some suspicious smudges on the bluing and the grip is chipped.
You had asked about value and no one wants to go out on that limb without better data, but I'll try.
If the gun is 100% matching and with original finish, bore decent, no problems, it could go for as much as $2k. But there are a lot of "if's" there. I'd think $1750 is closer to reality.
On the other hand, if it is mismatched internally, refinished, or otherwise compromised, that figure drops down to the $1000 range.
And that's about as far out on the limb as I'll go without more info. Hope this helps.
dju

RShaw · 02-01-2017, 01:07 PM

Would be nice to put together a good Sticky on refinishing versus original...I'm going to visit a Luger friend (and forum member) on the 11th. I know he has refinished and original pieces. Taking some good photos will be a nice challenge....

DonVoigt · 02-01-2017, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Based on the 2 photos I'm not seeing anything wrong or scary about the gun. Yes there are some suspicious smudges on the bluing and the grip is chipped.
You had asked about value and no one wants to go out on that limb without better data, but I'll try.
If the gun is 100% matching and with original finish, bore decent, no problems, it could go for as much as $2k. But there are a lot of "if's" there. I'd think $1750 is closer to reality.
On the other hand, if it is mismatched internally, refinished, or otherwise compromised, that figure drops down to the $1000 range.
And that's about as far out on the limb as I'll go without more info. Hope this helps.
dju

That is pretty far out!

Just look at auctions and sellng prices on Gunbroker for real life data.

DonVoigt · 02-01-2017, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RShaw

Would be nice to put together a good Sticky on refinishing versus original...I'm going to visit a Luger friend (and forum member) on the 11th. I know he has refinished and original pieces. Taking some good photos will be a nice challenge....

I believe you answered your own question before; you just can't tell from pictures.

Really bad refinishing is easy to spot; really good refinishing is not.
Well worn but good/old refinishing can look a lot like original finish.

Just too many variables and no substitute for years of handling and inspecting.

RShaw · 02-01-2017, 01:44 PM

To quote your message: "Really bad refinishing is easy to spot; really good refinishing is not.
Well worn but good/old refinishing can look a lot like original finish. Just too many variables and no substitute for years of handling and inspecting."

true.... but one has to have / see / inspect pieces for which the nature of the finishing is definitely KNOWN. Otherwise it still seems to be a fair proportion of guess work and "gut feeling." Gut feeling goes a long way though... I'm not discounting that at ALL.

4 Scale · 02-01-2017, 08:10 PM

FAQ over at the J Still forum discusses finish assessment. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...sked-Questions

To amplify Don's comment, which I agree with, 'years of handling and inspecting' will by definition include in-hand inspection of the genuine article. IMO this is where going to quality shows that include high-quality examples from reputable dealers and experienced collectors will help newbies, as they get to see the real deal up close.

Geo99 · 02-02-2017, 02:07 AM

As others already said, you can't tell anything from just two pictures, but I would give your friend $1500 for this gun right now.

Rust blue is dull compared to what most people are used to seeing on modern high polish guns. I would use a word like "satin" to try explaining it, but I think "dull" is not a bad description of rust blue, for a newbie.

- Geo

RShaw · 02-02-2017, 02:16 AM

Yup... a nice firearm! Good way to spend $1500. Lugers are unique guns- they wake up a desire to "do what you gotta do" (legally and ethically of course) to get that gun into your safe or living room. Don't know if any other make which does that... maybe Colt? Maybe.....

Geo99 · 02-02-2017, 02:18 AM

Bill -

The color I see looks like all my Imperial Lugers. What color are you looking for?

I do see a lot of variation in finish, from the darker shiny barrel end to the lighter flat-looking ears. The sideplate is probably just an oil smudge. But flash and and oil smudges changes appearance of metal, so I don't trust these pictures too much either.

- Geo

01-08-2017, 01:27 AM	#1
rufrdr User Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Ballpark-ish estimate on 1916 DWM? A friend has a 1916 DWM that he may want to let go. I haven't seen it in person yet but the pictures he's shared seem to show a 99% finish condition including very nice grips with all exterior numbers matching including the magazine. It is a WW1 bring-back. Rough value range? I don't want to share the pics since the pistol isn't mine and may never be. Thanks

01-08-2017, 09:50 AM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Many variables. To be collectible should have all matching numbers, all original parts, original finish with as high a coverage as possible. Refinish puts it into shooter category. DWM made P.08 military Lugers, LP.08 and Navy Lugers in that year. Which is it? __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

01-08-2017, 02:05 PM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Post pictures. If it's all matching (including the grips), and in high original finish condition they range from $1500 to much more depending on whether the magazine is matching and exactly how much wear is visible. The entire serial number will be on a matching side plate. The first two digits stamped inside toward the bottom in a curved area, and the last two on the outside. You'll need to post pictures to get anywhere near an accurate estimate on this. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-01-2017, 02:34 AM	#8
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Yes... looks very nice for sure! I do notice that the left grip has the classic "million dollar chip" just under the safety lever. This would bring the value down somewhat. There are experts on this forum who could repair that I think. Other than that- finish looks good... when you say it is a dull blue, could mean it's been refinished- doesn't look like that from your photos though. Matching magazine too? If so, that would increase the value significantly. If I were you I would go after it.... seems to be more a collectible than a shooter- that question would be settled after checking it according to Marc's post above. __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

02-01-2017, 09:56 AM	#9
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,616 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,523 Times in 940 Posts	My best guess on this is refinished. Color looks wrong for a ww1 luger. May just be the pictures., Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

01-08-2017, 08:39 AM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Karl, That's like asking "How much is a house in Spain?" as my father used to say. To start with, does it have a 4, 6 or 8 inch barrel? Regards, Norm

01-08-2017, 12:54 PM	#4
rufrdr User Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Sorry, should have been more specific. It is a 4" barrel standard GI type DWM marked 1916. Finish in the pictures appears to be original with very minimal wear, all markings crisp and sharp. It has been in the family since bringing it back from WW1. I will hopefully be seeing it this week and if I do I'll provide more details. Thanks!

01-31-2017, 11:37 PM	#6
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Karl....if I may ask.... What happened finally with your friend's 1916 DWM?

02-01-2017, 12:18 AM	#7
rufrdr User Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	I got to see it briefly today and held it for a minute or two. I didn't get a chance to look down the bore but the overall condition of the piece is very nice. The finish is a dull blue. He'd like me to strip it down, clean and lube it at some point soon so at that time I'll have a better idea of what he has. It is a 1916 dated piece with the 4 digit SN 9xxx. Here are two pictures of the pistol that he sent to me:

02-01-2017, 10:14 AM	#10
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	This is exactly where it gets difficult for those who have not seen so many examples of refinished pistols versus originals. Judging by a photo adds another layer of difficulty ) Once I have my refinished DWM home I would like to make photos which match the appearance of the pieces themselves to what they really look like in normal daylight- (by a window on an overcast day)

02-01-2017, 11:47 AM	#11
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I would agree with Bill, that finish colour doesn't convince me for a WWI Luger, would be interesting to see better an more detailed pictures taken without flash at a closer distance. IMHO. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

02-01-2017, 11:59 AM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Based on the 2 photos I'm not seeing anything wrong or scary about the gun. Yes there are some suspicious smudges on the bluing and the grip is chipped. You had asked about value and no one wants to go out on that limb without better data, but I'll try. If the gun is 100% matching and with original finish, bore decent, no problems, it could go for as much as $2k. But there are a lot of "if's" there. I'd think $1750 is closer to reality. On the other hand, if it is mismatched internally, refinished, or otherwise compromised, that figure drops down to the $1000 range. And that's about as far out on the limb as I'll go without more info. Hope this helps. dju

02-01-2017, 01:07 PM	#13
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Would be nice to put together a good Sticky on refinishing versus original...I'm going to visit a Luger friend (and forum member) on the 11th. I know he has refinished and original pieces. Taking some good photos will be a nice challenge....

02-01-2017, 01:44 PM	#16
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	To quote your message: "Really bad refinishing is easy to spot; really good refinishing is not. Well worn but good/old refinishing can look a lot like original finish. Just too many variables and no substitute for years of handling and inspecting." true.... but one has to have / see / inspect pieces for which the nature of the finishing is definitely KNOWN. Otherwise it still seems to be a fair proportion of guess work and "gut feeling." Gut feeling goes a long way though... I'm not discounting that at ALL.

02-01-2017, 08:10 PM	#17
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	FAQ over at the J Still forum discusses finish assessment. http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...sked-Questions To amplify Don's comment, which I agree with, 'years of handling and inspecting' will by definition include in-hand inspection of the genuine article. IMO this is where going to quality shows that include high-quality examples from reputable dealers and experienced collectors will help newbies, as they get to see the real deal up close.

02-02-2017, 02:07 AM	#18
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	As others already said, you can't tell anything from just two pictures, but I would give your friend $1500 for this gun right now. Rust blue is dull compared to what most people are used to seeing on modern high polish guns. I would use a word like "satin" to try explaining it, but I think "dull" is not a bad description of rust blue, for a newbie. - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers

02-02-2017, 02:16 AM	#19
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Yup... a nice firearm! Good way to spend $1500. Lugers are unique guns- they wake up a desire to "do what you gotta do" (legally and ethically of course) to get that gun into your safe or living room. Don't know if any other make which does that... maybe Colt? Maybe.....

02-02-2017, 02:18 AM	#20
Geo99 User Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Whidbey Island WA Posts: 398 Thanks: 102 Thanked 125 Times in 74 Posts	Bill - The color I see looks like all my Imperial Lugers. What color are you looking for? I do see a lot of variation in finish, from the darker shiny barrel end to the lighter flat-looking ears. The sideplate is probably just an oil smudge. But flash and and oil smudges changes appearance of metal, so I don't trust these pictures too much either. - Geo __________________ "Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggie, until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers