1900 Swiss Contract Luger

alanint · 03-06-2008, 07:46 PM

I have just come across an original 1900 Swiss contract Luger in 95+ condition. All the books indicate it is correct with the only anomaly being a slightly later magazine. The gun has a double digit serial nmber in the 20"s.
The owner is interested in selling.
I am interested in this gun's current value as I wish to help this vet get top dollar for his treasure.

Thanks for any feedback you can give me.
Sorry, no photos at this time. I will be back to the forum when these are avialable.

drbuster · 03-06-2008, 08:31 PM

Alanint, this described Swiss luger, if correct, would be from the earliest contract 1900's sent to Switzerland. It is a highly desirable piece! If original, several things would be expected to be present. It would have the early first type safety lever with large cross hatchings. The "small" DWM logo should be on the toggle top. It should have an unrelieved frame and a wide flat button on the magazine. The early magazine should have no holes drilled on its side, not as with later 1900 magazines. And of course, it should have a +/V (Vogelsang) acceptance proof on the left side of the receiver. I'm sure I don't speak just for myself in anticipating photographs later. When you are able to take them, make certain you include close up views of the safety lever, the serial number on the frame front and barrel bottom, and especially a view of the bottom of the frame where the magazine goes in addition to the magazine button. Hope to hear from you soon.

John Sabato · 03-07-2008, 10:16 AM

Look forward to seeing the photos of this gun... it will be worth quite a bit more than your average 1900 if it is as you have described... but let's see the photos before any numbers are tossed around.

Ron Wood · 03-07-2008, 10:22 AM

I share Doc's excitement on your rare find! I would point out a couple of exceptions/additions to his comments. You won't find Vogelsang's inspection mark...for some reason he did not inspect the first batch of Lugers in the early serial number range. If the Luger is a military piece, it will have a small Swiss federal cross on the left side of the receiver and on the left side of the barrel. If it is a commercial piece, it will be marked with a Crown over each of the letters B, U and G (abbreviated C/B, C/U and C/G)on the bottom of the barrel, and a C/B and C/U on the left side of the receiver, or it may have none or a combination of those proofs.

A clear picture of the underside of the barrel showing the serial number and proofs (if any) and the front of the frame showing the serial number would be very helpful. The other photos that Doc suggested are also important. As he said, hope to hear from you soon.

drbuster · 03-07-2008, 09:04 PM

Of course Ron is correct...he usually is. Col. Vogelsang came in later. Despite all this, we eagerly await photos.

alanint · 03-09-2008, 05:59 PM

Gentlemen,

I finally have some of the Swiss Luger photographs to share. I was unable to get the specific shots mentioned by some of you above as this gun is not in my possecion but is being brokered by a friend of mine, a local FFL. These photos were made by him. The gun has currently been shipped to Simpson's for a professional value estimate, so I currently have no access to the piece.

This is Swiss Luger #26, which according to Swiss Luger Collector Paul Regnier was "modified for some English tests" I currently do not know what exactly was modified on this piece but I suspect it has to do with the magazine, as it seems the frame's half moons which accept the grip's base knobs appear to have been enlarged.
How do I post these photos to the site as I do not have any web host services?

Thanks

John Sabato · 03-09-2008, 07:12 PM

Doug,

The upload link is located at the top of each forum webpage. Once you upload, you must copy the URL that the upload page gives you for use in your postings. The photos can not be more than 200K in filesize or they will not upload. You can reduce photos that are too large using Microsoft's Picture Manager that comes with windows.

If you have trouble uploading, post your needs here and someone can assist you... but using photos is like the parable about teaching someone to fish instead of giving them a fish. If you give someone a fish he gets a meal... teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime...

Once you the have the upload URL's for your photos, then you can use the ADD REPLY button to open a new posting to a discussion thread and using the IMG button in the add post window you can add up to eight images to each posting... (this includes any smilies that you may insert in your posting).

Good Luck... I look forward to seeing the photographs.

drbuster · 03-09-2008, 07:33 PM

If this gun is going to Simpsons for appraisal, then we of the Forum can feel confident that its true description will come forth.

alanint · 03-09-2008, 08:19 PM

Thank you,

I tried uploading the first photo but even one image exceeds the allowable 200K. I am preparing for my distributors to aarive from overseas so I do not have much time to fiddle with this. I did open picture manager but this will require some time to master.
I am afraid there will be a wait for the photos unless somebody is willing the receive these directly from me in an email or other format I am familiar with.
Regards,

Doug

Ron Wood · 03-09-2008, 08:20 PM

Regnier is describing the pre-production #26 made in 1899, which is a known piece and would be extremely valuable. Your friend is in posession of an early production example, either military or commercial, which is also very desirable and could be expensive depending on condition and originality, but it is a couple of orders of magnitude less rare and valuable than the one cited by Regnier.

alanint · 03-11-2008, 09:20 PM

Gentlemen,

This is a test to see if I have this process right. Here is the first photo I have managfed of this Luger. Markings are mininal. I mostly see the number 26 and several Swiss crosses on various parts. I will try to post further.

alanint · 03-11-2008, 09:35 PM

alanint · 03-11-2008, 09:37 PM

Sorry for the "Single fire" method of posting photos. I still don't get how to place multiple URLs in a single post
Doug

alanint · 03-11-2008, 09:38 PM

alanint · 03-11-2008, 09:42 PM

alanint · 03-11-2008, 09:44 PM

Ron Wood · 03-11-2008, 11:48 PM

Doug,
I have moderator capablilty for this forum, so I have edited your posts to change the [url] tags to [IMG] to allow the images to show up in your message. I am visting with my daughter, so I do not have a high definition graphcs monitor or photo editing software to enhance your images to see the detail, but I can tell you that from what I can see your friend has a very early production military issue Swiss and the frame has been modified/relieved to accept the later raised button magazine. Can"t tell much more than that from the photos, but it is a very early and desirable variation. Thanks for the photos.

alanint · 03-12-2008, 04:39 AM

Thank you, Ron,

As soon as the gun is back from Simpson's, I will shoot my own digital photos and hope to re-post, concentrating on the markings.

alanint · 03-12-2008, 04:43 AM

It is also curious that the side plate shows an unusual amount of wear versus the balance of the gun. In my exitement, I had initially said 95% +, but I would round this down a bit based on the photos.

03-06-2008, 07:46 PM	#1
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	1900 Swiss Contract Luger I have just come across an original 1900 Swiss contract Luger in 95+ condition. All the books indicate it is correct with the only anomaly being a slightly later magazine. The gun has a double digit serial nmber in the 20"s. The owner is interested in selling. I am interested in this gun's current value as I wish to help this vet get top dollar for his treasure. Thanks for any feedback you can give me. Sorry, no photos at this time. I will be back to the forum when these are avialable.

03-07-2008, 10:16 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Welcome to the Lugerforum. Look forward to seeing the photos of this gun... it will be worth quite a bit more than your average 1900 if it is as you have described... but let's see the photos before any numbers are tossed around. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-07-2008, 10:22 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I share Doc's excitement on your rare find! I would point out a couple of exceptions/additions to his comments. You won't find Vogelsang's inspection mark...for some reason he did not inspect the first batch of Lugers in the early serial number range. If the Luger is a military piece, it will have a small Swiss federal cross on the left side of the receiver and on the left side of the barrel. If it is a commercial piece, it will be marked with a Crown over each of the letters B, U and G (abbreviated C/B, C/U and C/G)on the bottom of the barrel, and a C/B and C/U on the left side of the receiver, or it may have none or a combination of those proofs. A clear picture of the underside of the barrel showing the serial number and proofs (if any) and the front of the frame showing the serial number would be very helpful. The other photos that Doc suggested are also important. As he said, hope to hear from you soon. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-09-2008, 07:12 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Doug, The upload link is located at the top of each forum webpage. Once you upload, you must copy the URL that the upload page gives you for use in your postings. The photos can not be more than 200K in filesize or they will not upload. You can reduce photos that are too large using Microsoft's Picture Manager that comes with windows. If you have trouble uploading, post your needs here and someone can assist you... but using photos is like the parable about teaching someone to fish instead of giving them a fish. If you give someone a fish he gets a meal... teach him to fish and you feed him for a lifetime... Once you the have the upload URL's for your photos, then you can use the ADD REPLY button to open a new posting to a discussion thread and using the IMG button in the add post window you can add up to eight images to each posting... (this includes any smilies that you may insert in your posting). Good Luck... I look forward to seeing the photographs. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-09-2008, 08:20 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Regnier is describing the pre-production #26 made in 1899, which is a known piece and would be extremely valuable. Your friend is in posession of an early production example, either military or commercial, which is also very desirable and could be expensive depending on condition and originality, but it is a couple of orders of magnitude less rare and valuable than the one cited by Regnier. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-06-2008, 08:31 PM	#2
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Alanint, this described Swiss luger, if correct, would be from the earliest contract 1900's sent to Switzerland. It is a highly desirable piece! If original, several things would be expected to be present. It would have the early first type safety lever with large cross hatchings. The "small" DWM logo should be on the toggle top. It should have an unrelieved frame and a wide flat button on the magazine. The early magazine should have no holes drilled on its side, not as with later 1900 magazines. And of course, it should have a +/V (Vogelsang) acceptance proof on the left side of the receiver. I'm sure I don't speak just for myself in anticipating photographs later. When you are able to take them, make certain you include close up views of the safety lever, the serial number on the frame front and barrel bottom, and especially a view of the bottom of the frame where the magazine goes in addition to the magazine button. Hope to hear from you soon.

03-07-2008, 09:04 PM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Of course Ron is correct...he usually is. Col. Vogelsang came in later. Despite all this, we eagerly await photos.

03-09-2008, 05:59 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Gentlemen, I finally have some of the Swiss Luger photographs to share. I was unable to get the specific shots mentioned by some of you above as this gun is not in my possecion but is being brokered by a friend of mine, a local FFL. These photos were made by him. The gun has currently been shipped to Simpson's for a professional value estimate, so I currently have no access to the piece. This is Swiss Luger #26, which according to Swiss Luger Collector Paul Regnier was "modified for some English tests" I currently do not know what exactly was modified on this piece but I suspect it has to do with the magazine, as it seems the frame's half moons which accept the grip's base knobs appear to have been enlarged. How do I post these photos to the site as I do not have any web host services? Thanks

03-09-2008, 07:33 PM	#8
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	If this gun is going to Simpsons for appraisal, then we of the Forum can feel confident that its true description will come forth.

03-09-2008, 08:19 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Thank you, I tried uploading the first photo but even one image exceeds the allowable 200K. I am preparing for my distributors to aarive from overseas so I do not have much time to fiddle with this. I did open picture manager but this will require some time to master. I am afraid there will be a wait for the photos unless somebody is willing the receive these directly from me in an email or other format I am familiar with. Regards, Doug

03-11-2008, 09:20 PM	#11
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Gentlemen, This is a test to see if I have this process right. Here is the first photo I have managfed of this Luger. Markings are mininal. I mostly see the number 26 and several Swiss crosses on various parts. I will try to post further.

03-11-2008, 09:35 PM	#12
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts

03-11-2008, 09:37 PM	#13
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Sorry for the "Single fire" method of posting photos. I still don't get how to place multiple URLs in a single post Doug

03-11-2008, 09:38 PM	#14
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts

03-11-2008, 09:42 PM	#15
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts

03-11-2008, 09:44 PM	#16
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts

03-11-2008, 11:48 PM	#17
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Doug, I have moderator capablilty for this forum, so I have edited your posts to change the [url] tags to [IMG] to allow the images to show up in your message. I am visting with my daughter, so I do not have a high definition graphcs monitor or photo editing software to enhance your images to see the detail, but I can tell you that from what I can see your friend has a very early production military issue Swiss and the frame has been modified/relieved to accept the later raised button magazine. Can"t tell much more than that from the photos, but it is a very early and desirable variation. Thanks for the photos. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-12-2008, 04:39 AM	#18
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Thank you, Ron, As soon as the gun is back from Simpson's, I will shoot my own digital photos and hope to re-post, concentrating on the markings.

03-12-2008, 04:43 AM	#19
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	It is also curious that the side plate shows an unusual amount of wear versus the balance of the gun. In my exitement, I had initially said 95% +, but I would round this down a bit based on the photos.