Why shoot WWII ammo?

MarkC · 06-14-2006, 07:47 PM

Guys,

I know it sound nuts, why shoot any collectable ammo?

Well, it seems there is some stuff around for $15 to $20 a box of 16 rounds. There was more 9mm ammo available from the German war machine after the war (1950's) that dealers sold here in the USA before 9mm was "acceptable" in semi automatic guns. The USA had lots of .45ACP but the German 9mm was new at the time and I am sure "Shotgun News" sold it by the crate.

So, I am considering shooting some of this stuff through a chronograph in my "built up" P.38 and a "shooter luger" to determine the ballistics of the round and replicate the ballistics of the round for bullet weight and velocity when I reload.

Has anyone shot WWII ammo through their guns? I know it is corrosive but what should I look for? There were rumors that steel jacketed bullets will wipe out the bore in a gun but I can't believe the Germans would sacrifice the barrels on the guns for cheap ammo.

All I need to shoot is about 10 rounds in a controlled indoor environment with my CED Millennium Chronograph with the Infrared (IR) Lighting Option.

I will also weigh the bullet heads to see exactly what they were shooting. The bullet ogive is also important for reloading according to WWII specs and will check it with calipers.

Leon DeSpain (who has a few cases of this ammo) was kind enough to send me an opened box of 12 ... 42 OXO st 2 ... ammo with the black heads with a shipment I got from him that included the unopened boxes of ammo.

I may need two more boxes from Leon to confirm the Chronograph results when I have the "duds" in the box.

Any thoughts? Anyone seen confirmed Chronograph results from WWII ammo? ..... This is for us "reloaders" ..... data from WWII ammo will confirm my reloading data when I work up the load.

Mark

Edward Tinker · 06-14-2006, 08:08 PM

Mark, when I was younger, I bought about 500 rounds of ww2 steel cored 9mm (this was about 1978-1979). It shot REALLY nice through my artillery, which I still have and it still has a nice bore....

Also, there must have been millions of rounds that came to America, because just in the last couple of years I have seen a just opened case that a guy was selling the boxes unopened, I bought 3 or 4 of the boxes...

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 06-14-2006, 09:18 PM

Mark, I would hesitate to do this...Old ammo of this nature sometimes has deterioration of the mecuric primer. This will oftentimes result in a misfire or delayed fire. Misfires can be dangerous. They can go off seconds later. Delayed fire can be dangerous for different reasons. If the primer is not strong enough it can burn the powder slowly resulting in fantasticly high CUP pressures. I believe this is so because the powder, when burning slowly builds too much pressure before the bullet is able to leave the barrel. Maybe some of our more knowledgable members can elucidate on this odd principle but it is true.
The same thing can occour when live cartridges are put into a vibrating cleaner to clean off the brass. This shakes the powder, breaking it down and making the particals smaller, changing the burning rate, resulting in high CUP pressures. Not every time but ic can and does happen.
Of course you could get lucky and not experience any of these dire scenarios but I just thought you should be aware the possibility is there.

So, I am considering shooting some of this stuff through a chronograph in my "built up" P.38 and a "shooter luger" to determine the ballistics of the round and replicate the ballistics of the round for bullet weight and velocity when I reload.

If you are looking for an exact replication of the German combat round I would think any measurement made 60 years later would automatically be suspect because of variables in deterioration.
Jerry Burney

MarkC · 06-14-2006, 10:01 PM

Thanks Ed and Jerry!

I think if the rounds were stored properly in a "crate" of ammo and in good condition they should be just fine to shoot. Granted I am shooting the rounds through "mismatced" guns and not anything collectable.... and yes, I'll be out the $150.00 for a new WWII barrel if the round blows up!

However, If I get consistent results when I fire the rounds over the chronograph it will tell me something.

A "squib" load is always a danger but I plan to take at least 2 rounds from the box of ammo apart to determine if there is any degradation of the powder before I fire the rest in my pistol and also test the primer for a good "pop" with no bullet or powder in place.

I have some 8mm rifle ammo that has signs of corrosion on the metal case and would not ever consider firing them.

I'll let you guys know the results of my test.

Mark

Clyde from Carolina · 08-10-2006, 09:49 AM

Hi Mark!

Just wondering if you ever finished your testing of the ammo?

Clyde

MarkC · 08-10-2006, 10:28 AM

Clyde,

I know it has been a while but as June turned into August I haven't spend more than an hour at the indoor range where I usually test with my chronograph. Most of my shooting has been at a large outdoor range North of Boston where I can spend most of the day here is the link

http://www.harvardsportsmensclub.com/facilities.html

This place has everything including a Cowboy Action village, a 300 yard high power, and a seperate class 3 range!

Mark

Clyde from Carolina · 08-10-2006, 10:46 AM

Mark,

That sounds like a great facility! I have a good indoor range to go to, but am still working on an outdoor range that is convenient for me to use.

I'm also fortunate to have a good pal who owns some land out in the sticks where we can go, which is great.

Clyde

06-14-2006, 07:47 PM	#1
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Why shoot WWII ammo? Guys, I know it sound nuts, why shoot any collectable ammo? Well, it seems there is some stuff around for $15 to $20 a box of 16 rounds. There was more 9mm ammo available from the German war machine after the war (1950's) that dealers sold here in the USA before 9mm was "acceptable" in semi automatic guns. The USA had lots of .45ACP but the German 9mm was new at the time and I am sure "Shotgun News" sold it by the crate. So, I am considering shooting some of this stuff through a chronograph in my "built up" P.38 and a "shooter luger" to determine the ballistics of the round and replicate the ballistics of the round for bullet weight and velocity when I reload. Has anyone shot WWII ammo through their guns? I know it is corrosive but what should I look for? There were rumors that steel jacketed bullets will wipe out the bore in a gun but I can't believe the Germans would sacrifice the barrels on the guns for cheap ammo. All I need to shoot is about 10 rounds in a controlled indoor environment with my CED Millennium Chronograph with the Infrared (IR) Lighting Option. I will also weigh the bullet heads to see exactly what they were shooting. The bullet ogive is also important for reloading according to WWII specs and will check it with calipers. Leon DeSpain (who has a few cases of this ammo) was kind enough to send me an opened box of 12 ... 42 OXO st 2 ... ammo with the black heads with a shipment I got from him that included the unopened boxes of ammo. I may need two more boxes from Leon to confirm the Chronograph results when I have the "duds" in the box. Any thoughts? Anyone seen confirmed Chronograph results from WWII ammo? ..... This is for us "reloaders" ..... data from WWII ammo will confirm my reloading data when I work up the load. Mark

06-14-2006, 09:18 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,857 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	Mark, I would hesitate to do this...Old ammo of this nature sometimes has deterioration of the mecuric primer. This will oftentimes result in a misfire or delayed fire. Misfires can be dangerous. They can go off seconds later. Delayed fire can be dangerous for different reasons. If the primer is not strong enough it can burn the powder slowly resulting in fantasticly high CUP pressures. I believe this is so because the powder, when burning slowly builds too much pressure before the bullet is able to leave the barrel. Maybe some of our more knowledgable members can elucidate on this odd principle but it is true. The same thing can occour when live cartridges are put into a vibrating cleaner to clean off the brass. This shakes the powder, breaking it down and making the particals smaller, changing the burning rate, resulting in high CUP pressures. Not every time but ic can and does happen. Of course you could get lucky and not experience any of these dire scenarios but I just thought you should be aware the possibility is there. So, I am considering shooting some of this stuff through a chronograph in my "built up" P.38 and a "shooter luger" to determine the ballistics of the round and replicate the ballistics of the round for bullet weight and velocity when I reload. If you are looking for an exact replication of the German combat round I would think any measurement made 60 years later would automatically be suspect because of variables in deterioration. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-14-2006, 08:08 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Mark, when I was younger, I bought about 500 rounds of ww2 steel cored 9mm (this was about 1978-1979). It shot REALLY nice through my artillery, which I still have and it still has a nice bore.... Also, there must have been millions of rounds that came to America, because just in the last couple of years I have seen a just opened case that a guy was selling the boxes unopened, I bought 3 or 4 of the boxes... Ed

06-14-2006, 10:01 PM	#4
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Thanks Ed and Jerry! I think if the rounds were stored properly in a "crate" of ammo and in good condition they should be just fine to shoot. Granted I am shooting the rounds through "mismatced" guns and not anything collectable.... and yes, I'll be out the $150.00 for a new WWII barrel if the round blows up! However, If I get consistent results when I fire the rounds over the chronograph it will tell me something. A "squib" load is always a danger but I plan to take at least 2 rounds from the box of ammo apart to determine if there is any degradation of the powder before I fire the rest in my pistol and also test the primer for a good "pop" with no bullet or powder in place. I have some 8mm rifle ammo that has signs of corrosion on the metal case and would not ever consider firing them. I'll let you guys know the results of my test. Mark

08-10-2006, 09:49 AM	#5
Clyde from Carolina User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Mark! Just wondering if you ever finished your testing of the ammo? Clyde

08-10-2006, 10:28 AM	#6
MarkC User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 478 Thanks: 1 Thanked 109 Times in 26 Posts	Clyde, I know it has been a while but as June turned into August I haven't spend more than an hour at the indoor range where I usually test with my chronograph. Most of my shooting has been at a large outdoor range North of Boston where I can spend most of the day here is the link http://www.harvardsportsmensclub.com/facilities.html This place has everything including a Cowboy Action village, a 300 yard high power, and a seperate class 3 range! Mark

08-10-2006, 10:46 AM	#7
Clyde from Carolina User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mark, That sounds like a great facility! I have a good indoor range to go to, but am still working on an outdoor range that is convenient for me to use. I'm also fortunate to have a good pal who owns some land out in the sticks where we can go, which is great. Clyde