Odd Rear Toggle Pin

Luke · 07-20-2003, 08:18 AM

Yesterday at a local gun show I saw an unusually honest Imperial Luger which had one odd feature: The rear toggle pin was completely in the white.

It appears to have never been blued.

Does anyone know if armory replacements were sometimes in the white?

Luke

John Sabato · 07-21-2003, 09:52 AM

1937 Luke, I can't speak for imperials... but the S/42 that my friend brought home from WW2 and that I know has never seen the light of day since then has a toggle pin that was "dirty" but in the white nonetheless... I don't know if this is normal either...

Thor · 07-21-2003, 10:03 AM

Since most of the early rear toggle axle pins were fire blued and fire bluing is not very durable I would imagine it might be worn off, this part also sometimes rubs inside the frame ears on some pistols during firing. The grip screws usually tarnish a bit after the fire bluing wears off on old pistols. The other thing I see occasionly is where someone has cut the rim off the pin. Now that is odd!

Luke · 07-21-2003, 10:22 AM

Thanks for your comments.

Since this is an Imperial in which the toggle pin was not numbered, it could be a replacement.

Thor -

This was clearly not a case of wear on the pin; it was uniformly and beautifully white/silver all over. Looked new. One of those unsolvable mysteries !

Luke

Jim Keenan · 07-21-2003, 05:13 PM

Those pins sometimes get lost. And when they do, sometimes folks like me get the honor of making new ones. And sometimes the owner of the gun says "Don't blue it, I'll finish it so it looks right." And sometimes he doesn't.

Jim

Luke · 07-21-2003, 06:10 PM

Jim,

Can these be turned a beautiful fire blue in a home oven? Do you have a formula?

Luke

John Sabato · 07-22-2003, 10:41 AM

Luke... it might be too hot for a home oven...

according to the chart in the Member Gallery, the temperature you are looking for is about 600 degrees fahrenheit...

Perhaps you know a place that does pottery... they should have a temperature controlled oven that would reach that high?

You might also try it slowly with a propane torch and watch the color as you go and then quench in clean motor oil...make sure you don't overheat it so you don't mess with the temper. That pin takes a pretty good beating when that toggle goes up and down.

Thor · 07-22-2003, 10:55 AM

Luke, you can send it to me along with that PPK safety that I told you I would do for you! I will do both of them for free. You have been a good client.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TPPK3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TPPK3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Luke · 07-22-2003, 11:25 AM

Thor, you are such a good guy. I have been really busy this summer rebuilding my deck . . . alone in the hot sun, and my memory (Not good, at best.) is probably suffering from the baking. Haven't really thought much about guns until recently.

I will plan to do that.

Thanks,
Luke

Jim Keenan · 07-22-2003, 04:28 PM

If you have an electric stove, just lay the item to be blued on one of the "rings" and turn the element on. Have a pair of pliers handy to snatch the part off just as it turns blue, which will be after it turns straw.

You can also use a propane torch, same deal. The polish is important to getting a nice blue.

Jim

07-20-2003, 08:18 AM	#1
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Odd Rear Toggle Pin Yesterday at a local gun show I saw an unusually honest Imperial Luger which had one odd feature: The rear toggle pin was completely in the white. It appears to have never been blued. Does anyone know if armory replacements were sometimes in the white? Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-21-2003, 09:52 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	1937 Luke, I can't speak for imperials... but the S/42 that my friend brought home from WW2 and that I know has never seen the light of day since then has a toggle pin that was "dirty" but in the white nonetheless... I don't know if this is normal either... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-21-2003, 10:03 AM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Since most of the early rear toggle axle pins were fire blued and fire bluing is not very durable I would imagine it might be worn off, this part also sometimes rubs inside the frame ears on some pistols during firing. The grip screws usually tarnish a bit after the fire bluing wears off on old pistols. The other thing I see occasionly is where someone has cut the rim off the pin. Now that is odd! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-21-2003, 10:22 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Thanks for your comments. Since this is an Imperial in which the toggle pin was not numbered, it could be a replacement. Thor - This was clearly not a case of wear on the pin; it was uniformly and beautifully white/silver all over. Looked new. One of those unsolvable mysteries ! Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-21-2003, 06:10 PM	#6
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Jim, Can these be turned a beautiful fire blue in a home oven? Do you have a formula? Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-21-2003, 05:13 PM	#5
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Those pins sometimes get lost. And when they do, sometimes folks like me get the honor of making new ones. And sometimes the owner of the gun says "Don't blue it, I'll finish it so it looks right." And sometimes he doesn't. Jim

07-22-2003, 10:41 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Luke... it might be too hot for a home oven... according to the chart in the Member Gallery, the temperature you are looking for is about 600 degrees fahrenheit... Perhaps you know a place that does pottery... they should have a temperature controlled oven that would reach that high? You might also try it slowly with a propane torch and watch the color as you go and then quench in clean motor oil...make sure you don't overheat it so you don't mess with the temper. That pin takes a pretty good beating when that toggle goes up and down. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-22-2003, 10:55 AM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Luke, you can send it to me along with that PPK safety that I told you I would do for you! I will do both of them for free. You have been a good client. <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TPPK3.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/TPPK3.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-22-2003, 11:25 AM	#9
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Thor, you are such a good guy. I have been really busy this summer rebuilding my deck . . . alone in the hot sun, and my memory (Not good, at best.) is probably suffering from the baking. Haven't really thought much about guns until recently. I will plan to do that. Thanks, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

07-22-2003, 04:28 PM	#10
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	If you have an electric stove, just lay the item to be blued on one of the "rings" and turn the element on. Have a pair of pliers handy to snatch the part off just as it turns blue, which will be after it turns straw. You can also use a propane torch, same deal. The polish is important to getting a nice blue. Jim