Simson tool?

Ron Wood · 10-03-2013, 09:42 AM

I have shown the photo of this tool that I came across in my parts box to a couple of folks that are way smarter than me. They said that it may be authentic. The shape and the wide thin cutout that hooks on the magazine follower button are typical Simson characteristics.

But, I have a couple of reservations. The raw edge of the blank when it is punched out of the sheet stock is usually smoothed down with a file. This tool has a very pronounced rough ridge along one side that didn’t get cleaned up. This is cosmetic and does not affect the function of the tool. The other thing is the Eagle/6 mark. There is an indent on the lower left side of the mark. This sometimes indicates a reproduction die, but the indent from a repro die strike usually goes completely around the mark. The Eagle/6 looks pretty authentic and it could be that it was stamped a little skewed so that the end of the die left an indent on the lower left of the mark. Both of these “flaws” might be attributed to Simson being primarily devoted to the production of military goods. The finish on Simson Lugers is not super smooth and possibly this tool was not worth a lot of effort to them to make it pretty. If it worked, it was OK.

An authentic Simson tool is scarce and a bit expensive. The tool does not fit in with my collection so I would like to sell it to someone that needs it if it is genuine. If it is a fake I’ll just toss it back in the parts box. I am posting it here to get a general consensus.
Thanks.
Ron

ithacaartist · 10-03-2013, 10:30 AM

Ron, I'd be interested if it's a fake. I just want one that's functional since all I own is shooters, and all the repros currently out there seem not to have the offset cut that establishes the "hook" within the hole.

I bought a couple on eBay that looked OK, but what looked like the "hook" part in the pics turned out to be the result of drilling the hole with a bit ground off-center--a bit thus sharpened drills a slightly oversize hole until the very bottom, where it cuts through at the actual diameter of the bit. This leaves a beveled lip around the inside bottom of the hole, and the lip slips off the follower button rather than staying hooked over. The maker did not even remove the burr on the backside, and this could scratch the mag body if used this way. (I'd eagerly have traded actual functionality for the fake proof mark on it!)
I complained to the seller and they refunded everything, and I still have the tools, one of which now has a functional lip thanks to me and my Dremel.

Edward Tinker · 10-03-2013, 01:51 PM

most fakes are not well made either - they bend, thus why I use only real ones

DDR ones are obvious with the grooves on the thumb part

Many, but not all fakes ones are thick, so from several areas Ron could you measure the thickness front to back

rhuff · 10-03-2013, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Ron, I'd be interested if it's a fake. I just want one that's functional since all I own is shooters, and all the repros currently out there seem not to have the offset cut that establishes the "hook" within the hole.

I bought a couple on eBay that looked OK, but what looked like the "hook" part in the pics turned out to be the result of drilling the hole with a bit ground off-center--a bit thus sharpened drills a slightly oversize hole until the very bottom, where it cuts through at the actual diameter of the bit. This leaves a beveled lip around the inside bottom of the hole, and the lip slips off the follower button rather than staying hooked over. The maker did not even remove the burr on the backside, and this could scratch the mag body if used this way. (I'd eagerly have traded actual functionality for the fake proof mark on it!)
I complained to the seller and they refunded everything, and I still have the tools, one of which now has a functional lip thanks to me and my Dremel.

I had a similar problem with a repo tool that i purchased from Sarco...I think. It wouldn't stay hooked on the mag button. I fixed mine by placing it in a vise, and using a flat file to square up the back surface, and remove some material. That did the trick for mine. I don't remember if I cold blued it or not.

Zorba · 10-03-2013, 04:56 PM

I'm in the same situation with a repro I bought - a machinist friend is going to put the offset cut into it, then I'll heat temper it with the torch/quench method. If it fails, trashcan...

10-03-2013, 09:42 AM	#1
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Simson tool? I have shown the photo of this tool that I came across in my parts box to a couple of folks that are way smarter than me. They said that it may be authentic. The shape and the wide thin cutout that hooks on the magazine follower button are typical Simson characteristics. But, I have a couple of reservations. The raw edge of the blank when it is punched out of the sheet stock is usually smoothed down with a file. This tool has a very pronounced rough ridge along one side that didn’t get cleaned up. This is cosmetic and does not affect the function of the tool. The other thing is the Eagle/6 mark. There is an indent on the lower left side of the mark. This sometimes indicates a reproduction die, but the indent from a repro die strike usually goes completely around the mark. The Eagle/6 looks pretty authentic and it could be that it was stamped a little skewed so that the end of the die left an indent on the lower left of the mark. Both of these “flaws” might be attributed to Simson being primarily devoted to the production of military goods. The finish on Simson Lugers is not super smooth and possibly this tool was not worth a lot of effort to them to make it pretty. If it worked, it was OK. An authentic Simson tool is scarce and a bit expensive. The tool does not fit in with my collection so I would like to sell it to someone that needs it if it is genuine. If it is a fake I’ll just toss it back in the parts box. I am posting it here to get a general consensus. Thanks. Ron Attached Thumbnails __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-03-2013, 10:30 AM	#2
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Ron, I'd be interested if it's a fake. I just want one that's functional since all I own is shooters, and all the repros currently out there seem not to have the offset cut that establishes the "hook" within the hole. I bought a couple on eBay that looked OK, but what looked like the "hook" part in the pics turned out to be the result of drilling the hole with a bit ground off-center--a bit thus sharpened drills a slightly oversize hole until the very bottom, where it cuts through at the actual diameter of the bit. This leaves a beveled lip around the inside bottom of the hole, and the lip slips off the follower button rather than staying hooked over. The maker did not even remove the burr on the backside, and this could scratch the mag body if used this way. (I'd eagerly have traded actual functionality for the fake proof mark on it!) I complained to the seller and they refunded everything, and I still have the tools, one of which now has a functional lip thanks to me and my Dremel. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-03-2013, 01:51 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	most fakes are not well made either - they bend, thus why I use only real ones DDR ones are obvious with the grooves on the thumb part Many, but not all fakes ones are thick, so from several areas Ron could you measure the thickness front to back

10-03-2013, 04:56 PM	#5
Zorba User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Merritt Island, Fl Posts: 951 Thanks: 776 Thanked 526 Times in 289 Posts	I'm in the same situation with a repro I bought - a machinist friend is going to put the offset cut into it, then I'll heat temper it with the torch/quench method. If it fails, trashcan...