22 Military Conv parts

mystical_tutor · 09-30-2013, 12:52 PM

Seeing the post about conversion kits reminded me to dig this out. Wish I had the whole thing but could never find a reasonably priced barrel adapter so I have never fired one of these.

1) Is it hard to find a barrel adapter and what would the price range be?

2) Will only specific adapters work? I know there were different models of the kit but this looks kinda early.

3) If the adapter is an uphill project, is anyone interested in buying the toggle and mag?

No the Mag is not bent. That is the photographic "barreling" illusion. And I do figure the mag does not go with it because of the English language stamp on it but was told it does go with a conversion unit. I honestly don't know anything about them.

ithacaartist · 09-30-2013, 04:59 PM

Hi Gary,

Some have had decent reliability and function using these kits, others are not necessarily as fortunate.

Yes, correct, that is a mag from the later SE-08 conversion kit, many imported post-war by Interarms. I don't think it will work with the toggle you have because the right, rear mag lip acts as the ejector when the system is installed. A separate ejector for this toggle train would have been included in the kit, to be swapped out in place of the gun's usual ejector. Can't tell if the mag's feature would take the place of the missing kit part and function in concert with the toggle train without checking to see by installing it in a Luger, but the underside/profile of the breech block would need to accommodate either.

I believe this toggle train is the model with a 2-piece rear axle, and a line-up tool for installing it.

I have the kit that uses that mag, but the two mags I have for it are suspect in feeding problems. I recently lost an auction for one that looked pretty minty, and would acquire another in really good shape to continue efforts to get the whole deal cycling properly. I'd make an offer, but would risk its being an insult because for this situation, I simply choose to set a lower limit on purchasing my third one, for several reasons. Otherwise, the one on eBay went for $61.99 after 9 bids; my max had been a dollar less. I think you might do better on Gunbroker or eBay if yours is properly listed. The last guy http://www.ebay.com/itm/200956680751...84.m1435.l2649 did not know what he had, and I think this may have cost him money. I think you could easily realize $75-100 for yours if it were accurately described. But other collectors on the forum would probably appreciate a shot at it, so this is what I'd suggest first.

The Nazi-proofed ones are pricey, due to their history--you could count on coughing up %1k + for a numbers matching WWII kit. But then, you're into it for enough money that you'd not install or shoot it for fear of obliterating half its value, like a Luger, if you crack a matching part. That's why I bought one with no fancy history or accompanying high price, a post-war shooter. Anyway, your experience in lack of affordable replacement components does not surprise me. But it might mean that you can extract an appropriate premium for what you do have, since it is military in origin. Some other members maybe able to guide you in pricing it. Mauro, for one, knows a lot about these jiggers; he's shone the light of knowledge for me a couple of times during my adventure of trying out one of these kits.

David Parker

ithacaartist · 09-30-2013, 05:54 PM

In case you want to work on completing the kit, a fairly stiff challenge, but not impossible...barrel liner nuts, their lock washer, f.p. or action spring, spare buffer bolt/spring/clip, and front and rear toggle axle pins. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=368242545

SteveM · 09-30-2013, 06:32 PM

Extractor appears to be missing..

mystical_tutor · 09-30-2013, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

Extractor appears to be missing..

I think so. I didn't notice till you mentioned it but there is a slot where it would be logical for the extractor to be with nothing in it.

Gary

SteveM · 09-30-2013, 09:16 PM

Just like this one...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31164

ithacaartist · 09-30-2013, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

Just like this one...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31164

Sorta. But the toggle trains are from different eras. Mag is the same. This eBay lister is either absolutely bananas or a shrewd predator in wait for a buyer who is uninformed, ill-informed, stupid, or has too much money. Ten minutes of research would cure most of it...

mystical_tutor · 10-01-2013, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Sorta. But the toggle trains are from different eras. Mag is the same. This eBay lister is either absolutely bananas or a shrewd predator in wait for a buyer who is uninformed, ill-informed, stupid, or has too much money. Ten minutes of research would cure most of it...

Humm, well there are certenly times I fit into some of those buyer descriptions--except the too much money...LOL.

If anyone here is interested please drop me a PM and I guess if no one here in interested, online auction may be the answer.

I'll drop you a PM about the mag, Id be glad to work out something where it gets a good home.

Gary

SteveM · 10-01-2013, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Sorta. But the toggle trains are from different eras. Mag is the same.

Yes, I know that they are from different era's. I was merely pointing out that the extractor is also missing from it as well.

bmwr12 · 10-02-2013, 05:56 PM

I think Sarco has parts for these. They are in the Shotgun news ads from time to time

mystical_tutor · 10-03-2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmwr12

I think Sarco has parts for these. They are in the Shotgun news ads from time to time

They have the spring but not the extractor.

ithacaartist · 10-03-2013, 10:15 AM

An extractor from the kit http://www.sarcoinc.com/erma22.html part #8907 appears tantalizingly similar to the extractor in a KGP68 http://www.gun-parts.com/erma/Er%2068.jpg Part #25. I'm in the midst of creating a run of the latter, for a couple of my pistols that are missing the part, and ultimately some for sale. Right now, I have a few "blanks" which have been sliced from a bar of tool steel that has been milled to yield the approximate profile of an extractor. What they need is to be fitted by hand filing, heat treated, and then finished. In the meantime, I've sold a couple of the raw blanks for $15, shipped, and the Erma owners that got them have had success in fitting them, using a scan of an original as a guide. The next problem is to obtain the proper plunger and spring, both elusive parts. The plungers can be turned from drill rod stock, but I have not developed a source for the springs yet.

John Sabato · 10-03-2013, 10:33 AM

Try McMaster-Carr for the springs... they stock lots of different types that might serve as your raw stock for fabrication.

If you have a lathe, you can wind your own springs from musical instrument wire like guitar strings...

mystical_tutor · 10-03-2013, 03:37 PM

This is getting more and more interesting.

OBTW, TWIMC, the Mag has been sold.

Thanks

ithacaartist · 10-04-2013, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Try McMaster-Carr for the springs... they stock lots of different types that might serve as your raw stock for fabrication.

If you have a lathe, you can wind your own springs from musical instrument wire like guitar strings...

Thanks, John,

McM C is a good potential source, hadn't tried them yet.

Unfortunately, my lathe does not have anything other than a hand-operated advance. It's an old Hamilton, designed for high school shop classes, with nothing automatic on it, only about 4' swing and maybe 14" bed/travel. It's cranky but cam be coaxed into precision. I have a buddy with a lathe which might do the job. These are tiny springs we're talking about!

09-30-2013, 12:52 PM	#1
mystical_tutor User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 230 Thanks: 32 Thanked 39 Times in 25 Posts	22 Military Conv parts Seeing the post about conversion kits reminded me to dig this out. Wish I had the whole thing but could never find a reasonably priced barrel adapter so I have never fired one of these. 1) Is it hard to find a barrel adapter and what would the price range be? 2) Will only specific adapters work? I know there were different models of the kit but this looks kinda early. 3) If the adapter is an uphill project, is anyone interested in buying the toggle and mag? No the Mag is not bent. That is the photographic "barreling" illusion. And I do figure the mag does not go with it because of the English language stamp on it but was told it does go with a conversion unit. I honestly don't know anything about them. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by mystical_tutor; 09-30-2013 at 12:57 PM. Reason: add note about mag

09-30-2013, 05:54 PM	#3
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	In case you want to work on completing the kit, a fairly stiff challenge, but not impossible...barrel liner nuts, their lock washer, f.p. or action spring, spare buffer bolt/spring/clip, and front and rear toggle axle pins. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=368242545 __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-03-2013, 10:15 AM	#12
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	An extractor from the kit http://www.sarcoinc.com/erma22.html part #8907 appears tantalizingly similar to the extractor in a KGP68 http://www.gun-parts.com/erma/Er%2068.jpg Part #25. I'm in the midst of creating a run of the latter, for a couple of my pistols that are missing the part, and ultimately some for sale. Right now, I have a few "blanks" which have been sliced from a bar of tool steel that has been milled to yield the approximate profile of an extractor. What they need is to be fitted by hand filing, heat treated, and then finished. In the meantime, I've sold a couple of the raw blanks for $15, shipped, and the Erma owners that got them have had success in fitting them, using a scan of an original as a guide. The next problem is to obtain the proper plunger and spring, both elusive parts. The plungers can be turned from drill rod stock, but I have not developed a source for the springs yet. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

10-03-2013, 10:33 AM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Try McMaster-Carr for the springs... they stock lots of different types that might serve as your raw stock for fabrication. If you have a lathe, you can wind your own springs from musical instrument wire like guitar strings... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-30-2013, 04:59 PM	#2
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Hi Gary, Some have had decent reliability and function using these kits, others are not necessarily as fortunate. Yes, correct, that is a mag from the later SE-08 conversion kit, many imported post-war by Interarms. I don't think it will work with the toggle you have because the right, rear mag lip acts as the ejector when the system is installed. A separate ejector for this toggle train would have been included in the kit, to be swapped out in place of the gun's usual ejector. Can't tell if the mag's feature would take the place of the missing kit part and function in concert with the toggle train without checking to see by installing it in a Luger, but the underside/profile of the breech block would need to accommodate either. I believe this toggle train is the model with a 2-piece rear axle, and a line-up tool for installing it. I have the kit that uses that mag, but the two mags I have for it are suspect in feeding problems. I recently lost an auction for one that looked pretty minty, and would acquire another in really good shape to continue efforts to get the whole deal cycling properly. I'd make an offer, but would risk its being an insult because for this situation, I simply choose to set a lower limit on purchasing my third one, for several reasons. Otherwise, the one on eBay went for $61.99 after 9 bids; my max had been a dollar less. I think you might do better on Gunbroker or eBay if yours is properly listed. The last guy http://www.ebay.com/itm/200956680751...84.m1435.l2649 did not know what he had, and I think this may have cost him money. I think you could easily realize $75-100 for yours if it were accurately described. But other collectors on the forum would probably appreciate a shot at it, so this is what I'd suggest first. The Nazi-proofed ones are pricey, due to their history--you could count on coughing up %1k + for a numbers matching WWII kit. But then, you're into it for enough money that you'd not install or shoot it for fear of obliterating half its value, like a Luger, if you crack a matching part. That's why I bought one with no fancy history or accompanying high price, a post-war shooter. Anyway, your experience in lack of affordable replacement components does not surprise me. But it might mean that you can extract an appropriate premium for what you do have, since it is military in origin. Some other members maybe able to guide you in pricing it. Mauro, for one, knows a lot about these jiggers; he's shone the light of knowledge for me a couple of times during my adventure of trying out one of these kits. David Parker __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-30-2013, 06:32 PM	#4
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Extractor appears to be missing..

09-30-2013, 09:16 PM	#6
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	Just like this one... http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31164

10-02-2013, 05:56 PM	#10
bmwr12 User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I think Sarco has parts for these. They are in the Shotgun news ads from time to time

10-03-2013, 03:37 PM	#14
mystical_tutor User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 230 Thanks: 32 Thanked 39 Times in 25 Posts	This is getting more and more interesting. OBTW, TWIMC, the Mag has been sold. Thanks