U. S. Army Luger

ToggleTop · 06-17-2002, 11:22 PM

I thought this envelope might be of interest to the U. S. Army Test Trials Luger collector's. As you can see there are three images. The first is the front of an envelope that was never mailed or post marked. The second image is of the back of the envelope and I guess was for advertising the Luger. The third image is the letter that was written and was inside the envelope. The date of the letter is quite old.

I thought the advertising information was real interesting since it referred to the U. S. Army Hammerless Automatic Pistol, and of couse the rest of the information is directed to promoting the pistol. Hope you enjoy it. A bit of old Luger history.

BILL · 06-17-2002, 11:56 PM

That is a great collector's item. It is unique in every way! I really appreciate the letter inside..but since it was never mailed I wonder if the guy ever found out just what he needed to know as a 'young husband'. What a cool envelope. Where did you see this? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Jerry Harris · 06-18-2002, 01:20 AM

Agree with Bill, what a gem of a historical snippet!

If I catch correctly, Smith worked for Baker & Hamilton, a California hardware dealer and Luger importer. He used the company letterhead and advertising envelope to write a completely personal (unsent) request for what we'd now call a "self-help" book from Physical Culture Publishing in New York.

My impressions are

a) The dealer (possibly with encouragement from DWM) took a pretty loose view of what it takes to become a "U.S Army...Automatic Pistol."

b) Adult spelling skills at the turn of the century, when the "three Rs" were king, weren't noticeably better than they are now.

c) This dealer in 1902 referred to the "Luger...Pistol" although references often suggest that "Parabellum" was used until the '20s, when Stoeger and/or Abercrombie & Fitch adopted the inventor's name.

I believe Physical Culture Magazine was run by Bernarr McFadden, a pop health guru and something like a mixture of Charles Atlas and Joycelyn Elders.

ViggoG · 06-18-2002, 01:32 AM

HOW ABOUT THAT PRICE ???
I'd Love to have Many at that price !!!
I'd also like to know if this was a ligitiment Offer of sales, and I also note that the Luger advertised was 30 cal.
ViggoG

Russ · 06-18-2002, 02:28 AM

that is realy great.

Russ

unspellable · 06-18-2002, 10:52 AM

Does this imply that the legitimacy of Stoeger's copyright on the name "Luger" is suspect? If the term was in general usage, Stoeger should not have had a legitimate claim to be able to copyright it.

The term has been so generally used since, that I think the copyright might be open to question for that reason also.

Any copyright lawyers in the house?

unspellable

schwob · 06-18-2002, 06:03 PM

Would it be safe to say that 2000 yds is a stretch, or is he referring to the total range of the projectile? [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

wterrell · 06-18-2002, 06:45 PM

That piece is very unique. You are very fortunate to possess it.

I agree with Schwob, that 2000 yds is quite a range for a pistol. Shouldn't the range of a weapon be the distance that the weapon can be accurately shot within given parameters?

Frank · 06-18-2002, 07:31 PM

I believe that the stated range is the distance a bullet would travel, if it had the proper elevation and was unobstructed. Most .22 Cal cartriges state "Dangerous up to One Mile". That's 1760 yards!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

ToggleTop · 06-18-2002, 07:39 PM

I bought this envelope several years ago from a Gun List add. It came out of Grassy Valley, CA. I always felt it was a real bit of history especially since the Luger was being advertised as a US Army pistol. It is also a little hard to imagine that this letter is 100 years old this month and us collectors are so enthused over it. As far as the distance of 2000 yds. goes, I remember the warning they use to or still do put on a box of .22 cal cartridges. It said, Warning: "Be Careful Range One Mile". Maybe the 2000 yds. refers to a distance like that. I did see a western movie one time where Robert Duvall aimed a rifle at about 45 degrees and killed his man with a shot in the head! I guess things like that could happen? Anyway, I am glad everyone enjoyed seeing the information. I thought the little saying at the bottom was pretty catchy, "If if is good enough for "Uncle Sam" twil suit you". A bunch of those $25.00 lugers would sure suit me today!
Thanks again for all the replys, it makes the effort to do it very worth while!

Ron Wood · 06-19-2002, 04:41 PM

Terry
1902 marked the introduction of the 9mm Parabellum with the so-called "fat barrel" model. The thing that strikes me about the envelope and letter is that the first US military Lugers were delivered in October of 1901, and by June of 1902 Baker & Hamilton had already capitalized on its US military connection! The other thing that I noticed is that the Luger depicted on the envelope has the very early first type safety and Swiss-style bordered grips.

ToggleTop · 06-19-2002, 10:37 PM

Hello Ron,
Here is a better image of the artwork on the envelope.

Ron Wood · 06-19-2002, 11:12 PM

Excellent! Definately illustrates a very early version of the Luger. Thank you for the enlargement. I have saved all of your images for future reference.

06-17-2002, 11:22 PM	#1
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	U. S. Army Luger I thought this envelope might be of interest to the U. S. Army Test Trials Luger collector's. As you can see there are three images. The first is the front of an envelope that was never mailed or post marked. The second image is of the back of the envelope and I guess was for advertising the Luger. The third image is the letter that was written and was inside the envelope. The date of the letter is quite old. I thought the advertising information was real interesting since it referred to the U. S. Army Hammerless Automatic Pistol, and of couse the rest of the information is directed to promoting the pistol. Hope you enjoy it. A bit of old Luger history. __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

06-17-2002, 11:56 PM	#2
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That is a great collector's item. It is unique in every way! I really appreciate the letter inside..but since it was never mailed I wonder if the guy ever found out just what he needed to know as a 'young husband'. What a cool envelope. Where did you see this? [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ *"Take me to your Luger!"*

06-18-2002, 02:28 AM	#5
Russ User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Reading, PA. Posts: 628 Thanks: 2 Thanked 38 Times in 10 Posts	that is realy great. Russ __________________ Livin the dream!!!!!!!!!!!

06-18-2002, 06:45 PM	#8
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	That piece is very unique. You are very fortunate to possess it. I agree with Schwob, that 2000 yds is quite a range for a pistol. Shouldn't the range of a weapon be the distance that the weapon can be accurately shot within given parameters? __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

06-18-2002, 07:39 PM	#10
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I bought this envelope several years ago from a Gun List add. It came out of Grassy Valley, CA. I always felt it was a real bit of history especially since the Luger was being advertised as a US Army pistol. It is also a little hard to imagine that this letter is 100 years old this month and us collectors are so enthused over it. As far as the distance of 2000 yds. goes, I remember the warning they use to or still do put on a box of .22 cal cartridges. It said, Warning: "Be Careful Range One Mile". Maybe the 2000 yds. refers to a distance like that. I did see a western movie one time where Robert Duvall aimed a rifle at about 45 degrees and killed his man with a shot in the head! I guess things like that could happen? Anyway, I am glad everyone enjoyed seeing the information. I thought the little saying at the bottom was pretty catchy, "If if is good enough for "Uncle Sam" twil suit you". A bunch of those $25.00 lugers would sure suit me today! Thanks again for all the replys, it makes the effort to do it very worth while! __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

06-18-2002, 01:20 AM	#3
Jerry Harris User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 64 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Agree with Bill, what a gem of a historical snippet! If I catch correctly, Smith worked for Baker & Hamilton, a California hardware dealer and Luger importer. He used the company letterhead and advertising envelope to write a completely personal (unsent) request for what we'd now call a "self-help" book from Physical Culture Publishing in New York. My impressions are a) The dealer (possibly with encouragement from DWM) took a pretty loose view of what it takes to become a "U.S Army...Automatic Pistol." b) Adult spelling skills at the turn of the century, when the "three Rs" were king, weren't noticeably better than they are now. c) This dealer in 1902 referred to the "Luger...Pistol" although references often suggest that "Parabellum" was used until the '20s, when Stoeger and/or Abercrombie & Fitch adopted the inventor's name. I believe Physical Culture Magazine was run by Bernarr McFadden, a pop health guru and something like a mixture of Charles Atlas and Joycelyn Elders.

06-18-2002, 01:32 AM	#4
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	HOW ABOUT THAT PRICE ??? I'd Love to have Many at that price !!! I'd also like to know if this was a ligitiment Offer of sales, and I also note that the Luger advertised was 30 cal. ViggoG

06-18-2002, 10:52 AM	#6
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	Does this imply that the legitimacy of Stoeger's copyright on the name "Luger" is suspect? If the term was in general usage, Stoeger should not have had a legitimate claim to be able to copyright it. The term has been so generally used since, that I think the copyright might be open to question for that reason also. Any copyright lawyers in the house? unspellable

06-18-2002, 06:03 PM	#7
schwob RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Coast of Maine Posts: 273 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Would it be safe to say that 2000 yds is a stretch, or is he referring to the total range of the projectile? [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

06-18-2002, 07:31 PM	#9
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	I believe that the stated range is the distance a bullet would travel, if it had the proper elevation and was unobstructed. Most .22 Cal cartriges state "Dangerous up to One Mile". That's 1760 yards!! [img]smile.gif[/img]

06-19-2002, 04:41 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Terry 1902 marked the introduction of the 9mm Parabellum with the so-called "fat barrel" model. The thing that strikes me about the envelope and letter is that the first US military Lugers were delivered in October of 1901, and by June of 1902 Baker & Hamilton had already capitalized on its US military connection! The other thing that I noticed is that the Luger depicted on the envelope has the very early first type safety and Swiss-style bordered grips. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-19-2002, 10:37 PM	#12
ToggleTop User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: TN Posts: 297 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Ron, Here is a better image of the artwork on the envelope. __________________ *********************** ToggleTop************* JustHappenToLoveLugers *************************

06-19-2002, 11:12 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Excellent! Definately illustrates a very early version of the Luger. Thank you for the enlargement. I have saved all of your images for future reference. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction