9mm or Parabellum?

Capt Art · 02-12-2008, 07:42 PM

Apologize for this dumb question. I finally decided to shoot my P38. Have never fired any of my Lugers. Have a box of 9mm. Do they have to be Parabellum? Thanks

StarOfTheWest · 02-12-2008, 08:34 PM

Most 9mm *is* Parabellum, unless it is 9mm Largo, or some other obscure size.
Your standard 9mm that you would feed a Glock or a Browning HP is the same 9mm Parabellum that your P38 would like.
Just don't shoot +P or +P+.

John Sabato · 02-13-2008, 08:30 AM

Walmart carries Winchester 9mm in a 100 round box for about $12 that most Lugers digest very well.

Capt Art · 02-13-2008, 11:59 AM

Thanks Star of the West and John Sabato.

Vlim · 02-14-2008, 04:22 AM

9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum or 9x19 is the same stuff.

A case length of 19 mm and an OAL of some 29 mm.
OAL is important. Most modern US 9mm is a tad on the short side.

Ron Smith · 02-14-2008, 09:52 AM

"Most modern US 9mm is a tad on the short side."

Oh Sure Gerben... bring that up!!

Vlim · 02-15-2008, 03:27 PM

lol, Ron.

Yes, they say the length is unimportant, but, alas, it is

Just compensate by getting a bigger gun

lboos · 02-21-2008, 11:55 AM

i took one of my ww2 german 1943 issue 9mm out of it,s box and put it on a level desk beside a walmart winchester 9mm and i see no diff. at all. "But i have no calibrated pme or lazer. all i have is a machinist steel rule. has any one here with better measure,ing instruments ever comparied an actual ww2 and walmart winchester?

unspellable · 02-21-2008, 01:56 PM

It's not the case length that differs, but the over all length, important for feeding through the Luger magazine. This is because it's a tapered case. Not so important in other 9 mm pistols, partcularly double stackers where the double stacking compensates for the taper by toeing in the cartridges.

Vlim · 02-21-2008, 02:19 PM

Yes,

We did some comparisons in the past.
I personally measured a modern S&B 124 grain round and a 1917 DWM made one. Difference was close to none.

1904 DWM drawings give an OAL of 2.92 cm (1.15 inch) (and a case length of 19mm)

1940 Winchester drawing states 1.169 inch.

NATO standard shows a case length of 19.5 mm and an OAL between 28.905mm and 29.623 (1.14 inch and 1.17 inch)

Capt Art · 02-21-2008, 02:58 PM

John:
The Winchester 9mm are almost $19.00 a hundred at our Walmart. Thanks for the comeback though.

John Sabato · 02-21-2008, 02:58 PM

Gerben,

What is the plus or minus tolerance specified on the DWM and other drawings. BTW, I would like to add that print to my p.08 Blueprint CD... are you reading it in a book? or do you have a print? or a scan of a print?

Thanks.

John Sabato · 02-21-2008, 03:01 PM

I doubt you will find that Winchester 115 gr. 9mm in the 100 rd. box any cheaper than walmart. Prices have certainly risen in the last two years. The last time I personally bought some was two years ago and paid. $11.00 a hundred.

Vlim · 02-21-2008, 04:11 PM

Hi John,

The drawings can be found in 'The Dutch Luger' and in 'Die Pistole 08'.

Sieger · 02-21-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by unspellable
It's not the case length that differs, but the over all length, important for feeding through the Luger magazine. This is because it's a tapered case. Not so important in other 9 mm pistols, partcularly double stackers where the double stacking compensates for the taper by toeing in the cartridges.

AMEN!!!

For round nose ammo, I've done extensive testing of original "vintage" ammo and have found 1.169 to 1.173 for the 9mm. 1.15 sounds like the truncated cone (flat nose) ammo length for the 9mm.

Sieger

Sieger · 02-21-2008, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren
Yes,

We did some comparisons in the past.
I personally measured a modern S&B 124 grain round and a 1917 DWM made one. Difference was close to none.

Hi:

It doesn't take a lot of difference in length to cause the jam problem. Precision is necessary.

I've also found the 124 gr. S&B an acceptable substitute for original German ammo, albeit a tad on the hot side.

Sieger

02-12-2008, 07:42 PM	#1
Capt Art User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	9mm or Parabellum? Apologize for this dumb question. I finally decided to shoot my P38. Have never fired any of my Lugers. Have a box of 9mm. Do they have to be Parabellum? Thanks

02-12-2008, 08:34 PM	#2
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	Most 9mm is Parabellum, unless it is 9mm Largo, or some other obscure size. Your standard 9mm that you would feed a Glock or a Browning HP is the same 9mm Parabellum that your P38 would like. Just don't shoot +P or +P+. __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

02-13-2008, 08:30 AM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Walmart carries Winchester 9mm in a 100 round box for about $12 that most Lugers digest very well. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-13-2008, 11:59 AM	#4
Capt Art User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Answer Appreciation Thanks Star of the West and John Sabato.

02-14-2008, 09:52 AM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	"Most modern US 9mm is a tad on the short side." Oh Sure Gerben... bring that up!! __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-14-2008, 04:22 AM	#5
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	9mm Luger, 9mm Parabellum or 9x19 is the same stuff. A case length of 19 mm and an OAL of some 29 mm. OAL is important. Most modern US 9mm is a tad on the short side.

02-15-2008, 03:27 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	lol, Ron. Yes, they say the length is unimportant, but, alas, it is Just compensate by getting a bigger gun

02-21-2008, 11:55 AM	#8
lboos User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ga. Posts: 69 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i took one of my ww2 german 1943 issue 9mm out of it,s box and put it on a level desk beside a walmart winchester 9mm and i see no diff. at all. "But i have no calibrated pme or lazer. all i have is a machinist steel rule. has any one here with better measure,ing instruments ever comparied an actual ww2 and walmart winchester?

02-21-2008, 01:56 PM	#9
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	It's not the case length that differs, but the over all length, important for feeding through the Luger magazine. This is because it's a tapered case. Not so important in other 9 mm pistols, partcularly double stackers where the double stacking compensates for the taper by toeing in the cartridges.

02-21-2008, 02:19 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Yes, We did some comparisons in the past. I personally measured a modern S&B 124 grain round and a 1917 DWM made one. Difference was close to none. 1904 DWM drawings give an OAL of 2.92 cm (1.15 inch) (and a case length of 19mm) 1940 Winchester drawing states 1.169 inch. NATO standard shows a case length of 19.5 mm and an OAL between 28.905mm and 29.623 (1.14 inch and 1.17 inch)

02-21-2008, 02:58 PM	#11
Capt Art User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Florida Gulf Coast Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John: The Winchester 9mm are almost $19.00 a hundred at our Walmart. Thanks for the comeback though.

02-21-2008, 03:01 PM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I doubt you will find that Winchester 115 gr. 9mm in the 100 rd. box any cheaper than walmart. Prices have certainly risen in the last two years. The last time I personally bought some was two years ago and paid. $11.00 a hundred. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-21-2008, 04:11 PM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi John, The drawings can be found in 'The Dutch Luger' and in 'Die Pistole 08'.