Advice needed on prospective purchase

adlerauger · 11-29-2010, 01:25 AM

I've got my eye on a Luger that I need your collective advice on before jumping on it.
It's an Erfurt, marked 1921. It has no lug on the back strap, and it has the unit marked on the finger side of the grip's back strap. ( don't remember unit info )
A hurried look showed it appears to be all matching serial numbers but didn't have chance to look real close. Now, that's the good news; the bad news is, it has been re-blued! However, I can't see why it was, because all the edges are pretty sharp and clean and there's no evidence of pitting. Maybe the prior owner didn't like a Luger with a "patina" finish???
Mag's wood bottom, but not numbered. From what I've found digging around on the net leads me to believe this is an earlier ( 1912?) Luger??
The shop it's in wants $750.00 for it, but is willing to soften that a bit, plus he's open to trade. I'm going back there this coming tuesday so any and all advice is welcome.
Thanks in advance,
Adlerauger

policeluger · 11-29-2010, 02:50 AM

1921 dated ERFURT......flagges going up ever where.....why do you think it's a 1912?? take your running boots with you.............

DavidJayUden · 11-29-2010, 08:55 AM

It is a shooter and always will be. So if you want a shooter, then OK. The later guns are said to make better shooters than those early guns too. My suggestiion is if you still want it to make them a very low offer and let them stew on it.
At $400 you won't get hurt, but at $700+ you will.
dju

mrerick · 11-29-2010, 09:40 AM

While 1921 dated police rework Lugers are scarcer, they are apparently not so scarce as to raise their value much.

The refinishing work may have been done when it was reworked for police usage. You can only determine this by judging the state of the finish to estimate it's age. If you can see red oxide deeply in the finish using a magnifying glass and incandescent or natural light, the finish may, in fact, be from the 1920s.

Early Erfurt Lugers (the armory was active from 1910 to 1918) were manufactured without stock lugs. If this one doesn't show evidence of removal, it could be an early Erfurt. What else make you think it is an early one? What is the serial number? Here's a link from Jan's site:

Discussion of 1912 Erfurt Lugers

Marc

Edward Tinker · 11-29-2010, 10:26 AM

I don't think a rework would have a date of 1921, as the date was for new made lugers.

It is possible, but I'd like to see photo's to see it, sides, front, proofs, acceptance.

ed

adlerauger · 11-29-2010, 01:26 PM

Thanks for the quick responses and good advice.
I'm going to stop by the shop tuesday and give it a closer look, and get markings, serial numbers, etc.
As to why I selected 1912 as a possible date of manufacture rather than the 1921 date on the gun; 1912 was a date given for similar (?) pictures of Lugers without the lug which I found on the web.
The bluing on the gun in the shop looks too new, but I'll take a much closer look per your tips tuesday. There are no grind marks or any evidence of a lug having been removed.
Finally, thanks again for sharing your collective knowledge.
I'll report my findings.
Adlerauger

DavidJayUden · 11-29-2010, 04:10 PM

I'm betting against the old re-work theory of re-blue. Had it been done way back when it would have probably been rust blue and straw. I'm suspecting that if to a new guy it jumps out as a reblue 90 years later it is buffed/salt blued.
But proof is in the photos.
dju

George Anderson · 11-29-2010, 05:16 PM

Seems to me it's either a mixed parts pistol or a matter of dyslexia as a 1912 dated Erfurt would not have a stock lug and would be a likely pistol to have an imperial unit mark.

mrerick · 11-29-2010, 07:04 PM

$750 would be too much for a modified (stock lug removed) reblued Luger.

David's advice holds here...

Marc

MFC · 11-30-2010, 12:48 AM

My WAG... Erfurt or DWM 1908-1912 frame. DWM 1921 dated receiver. Erfurt toggle train.

adlerauger · 12-01-2010, 11:52 PM

I didn't have the opportunity to stop by the shop tuesday as I'd planned. I've taken note of all the advice I've gotten here, and I think I can look at it again from a more "well armed" perspective.
I've made the rounds of some of the few remaining shops here in Los Angeles that have Lugers and I've seen some in that same price range of $700 +-, and they're better than the one I'd posted questions about. Oh well, I already have one Luger, so maybe I'll just save up my pennies and get an artillery model, which is what I really want anyway.
Whatever happens, thanks all for your good and timely advice.
Best Regards,
Adler Auger

11-29-2010, 01:25 AM	#1
adlerauger User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Santa Clarita, California Posts: 50 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Advice needed on prospective purchase I've got my eye on a Luger that I need your collective advice on before jumping on it. It's an Erfurt, marked 1921. It has no lug on the back strap, and it has the unit marked on the finger side of the grip's back strap. ( don't remember unit info ) A hurried look showed it appears to be all matching serial numbers but didn't have chance to look real close. Now, that's the good news; the bad news is, it has been re-blued! However, I can't see why it was, because all the edges are pretty sharp and clean and there's no evidence of pitting. Maybe the prior owner didn't like a Luger with a "patina" finish??? Mag's wood bottom, but not numbered. From what I've found digging around on the net leads me to believe this is an earlier ( 1912?) Luger?? The shop it's in wants $750.00 for it, but is willing to soften that a bit, plus he's open to trade. I'm going back there this coming tuesday so any and all advice is welcome. Thanks in advance, Adlerauger

11-29-2010, 09:40 AM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	While 1921 dated police rework Lugers are scarcer, they are apparently not so scarce as to raise their value much. The refinishing work may have been done when it was reworked for police usage. You can only determine this by judging the state of the finish to estimate it's age. If you can see red oxide deeply in the finish using a magnifying glass and incandescent or natural light, the finish may, in fact, be from the 1920s. Early Erfurt Lugers (the armory was active from 1910 to 1918) were manufactured without stock lugs. If this one doesn't show evidence of removal, it could be an early Erfurt. What else make you think it is an early one? What is the serial number? Here's a link from Jan's site: Discussion of 1912 Erfurt Lugers Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-29-2010, 10:26 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I don't think a rework would have a date of 1921, as the date was for new made lugers. It is possible, but I'd like to see photo's to see it, sides, front, proofs, acceptance. ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-29-2010, 01:26 PM	#6
adlerauger User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Santa Clarita, California Posts: 50 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks all..... Thanks for the quick responses and good advice. I'm going to stop by the shop tuesday and give it a closer look, and get markings, serial numbers, etc. As to why I selected 1912 as a possible date of manufacture rather than the 1921 date on the gun; 1912 was a date given for similar (?) pictures of Lugers without the lug which I found on the web. The bluing on the gun in the shop looks too new, but I'll take a much closer look per your tips tuesday. There are no grind marks or any evidence of a lug having been removed. Finally, thanks again for sharing your collective knowledge. I'll report my findings. Adlerauger

11-29-2010, 07:04 PM	#9
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	$750 would be too much for a modified (stock lug removed) reblued Luger. David's advice holds here... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

11-29-2010, 02:50 AM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	1921 dated ERFURT......flagges going up ever where.....why do you think it's a 1912?? take your running boots with you.............

11-29-2010, 08:55 AM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	It is a shooter and always will be. So if you want a shooter, then OK. The later guns are said to make better shooters than those early guns too. My suggestiion is if you still want it to make them a very low offer and let them stew on it. At $400 you won't get hurt, but at $700+ you will. dju

11-29-2010, 04:10 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm betting against the old re-work theory of re-blue. Had it been done way back when it would have probably been rust blue and straw. I'm suspecting that if to a new guy it jumps out as a reblue 90 years later it is buffed/salt blued. But proof is in the photos. dju

11-29-2010, 05:16 PM	#8
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Seems to me it's either a mixed parts pistol or a matter of dyslexia as a 1912 dated Erfurt would not have a stock lug and would be a likely pistol to have an imperial unit mark.

11-30-2010, 12:48 AM	#10
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	My WAG... Erfurt or DWM 1908-1912 frame. DWM 1921 dated receiver. Erfurt toggle train. __________________ Mike C.

12-01-2010, 11:52 PM	#11
adlerauger User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Santa Clarita, California Posts: 50 Thanks: 8 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So many Lugers, so little time !! I didn't have the opportunity to stop by the shop tuesday as I'd planned. I've taken note of all the advice I've gotten here, and I think I can look at it again from a more "well armed" perspective. I've made the rounds of some of the few remaining shops here in Los Angeles that have Lugers and I've seen some in that same price range of $700 +-, and they're better than the one I'd posted questions about. Oh well, I already have one Luger, so maybe I'll just save up my pennies and get an artillery model, which is what I really want anyway. Whatever happens, thanks all for your good and timely advice. Best Regards, Adler Auger