1937 S/42

turnerhicks · 11-12-2005, 09:08 PM

Hello,
First post, I wanted to get your feedback on this Luger. I've only done some basic research on it, so feel free to correct any of the following. It's a 1937 S/42 early version with strawed parts. Serial number t85, I think strawing was eliminated later in the "t" group. The pins are the blue colored type of bluing. All parts are matching "85" except for the hold-open latch, which is numbered "86". There is some pitting and holster wear, but the finish looks better in real life than in the pictures. I grease-penciled some of the stamps to try to make them show up better. There are a lot of internal inspection stamps. The Gesichert paint was pretty much all gone. I haven't shot it, the bore isn't shiny, but the grooves look sharp. Left grip panel wiggles approx 1/32 of an inch, right panel is tight. No mag, no holster. I would appreciate whatever info you could give on this pistol. I can take additional pictures. I'm trying to decide to keep or sell it.
Turner

Edward Tinker · 11-12-2005, 10:22 PM

Turner, welcome to the forum!

Can you show the hold open and the number 86?

To some folks, this would be a mismatch and make it worth $500-$600 as a shooter, if it is just the one part, then to others, it makes a low end collectable as it appears to be in good shape, although worn here and there.

Have you checked the bolt, breechblock and firing pin to see if they are numbered 85?

Any cool story on where it came from, or was it a good deal / trade?

Ed

turnerhicks · 11-13-2005, 12:05 AM

Hello again,
Thanks for the help. I field stripped it to check the numbers again, and the extractor, breech, both toggle parts, and the main field stripping pin are all 85s. The hold open is 86. It'd be nice if somebody was looking at 86t and wondering why it had an 85 hold-open, but I won't get my hopes up. I'll post a picture of it tomorrow. I didn't see any more numbers in that area. This Luger has been passed around within my family for at least 30 years, but I don't think it was a bringback or anything like that.
Turner

Frank · 11-13-2005, 09:18 AM

Hi Turner, Welcome to the Luger Forum! Your 1937 S/42 Luger was completed about April 1937. As you noted it has strawed small parts and is most likely rust blued with polished inside surfaces. It is somewhat unique in that it also has a feature known as the "Mauser Hump" or "Mauser Bump" on the back edge of the frame. This feature was implemented during the transition between the rust blue finishing process and the hot dip blue process which followed in early 1937.

The number of Lugers that contain this combination of rust blue with strawed small parts AND the Mauser Hump is relatively small. The serial range for this group is between about 7000s to 2000t, but not all the Lugers in that range have these features.

It's unfortunate the hold open is not numbered to the pistol, as it would have increased the value of your pistol. Never the less, it's a somewhat rare bird. Thanks for providing the great photos.

turnerhicks · 11-13-2005, 01:25 PM

Here are a few more pictures as promised:

Mauser bump:

Interior:

Sideplate and latch:

Area under sideplate:

Thanks for the help, Lugers are such interesting bits of history.
Turner

Stef · 11-20-2005, 04:14 AM

Hi, I'm novice in the Luger knowledge.
Looking your pictures I notice that the magazine button in dark or black.
Is it the correct magazine for a 1937 model?
I was expecting to find an aluminium one.
Bye,
Stef

byf43 · 11-20-2005, 05:39 AM

First thanks you for the fantastic pictures!!! Second I'd like to ask about the hold open. Your's deviate with only 1. I'm asking about one in another thread which deviates with 2. Now my question is, could this happen at the factory? Or has someone searched long and hard to find a replacement part which is as close as possible to the rest of the pistols serial?

I've seen K98k's with a single (in one case 2 parts) part deviating with 1. Otherwise they're matching numbers. One of these K98k's was forgotten when the war ended and left untouched until found few years ago. Thus I know for sure that noone has tinkered with it post war.

Finally I'll second Stef.

My thoughts exactly.

Dwight Gruber · 11-21-2005, 02:47 AM

Mikkel,

There are occasional reports of original, un-messed-with Lugers with a parts mismatch like the one here--with the production of hundreds of thousands of Lugers it is likely to happen on the odd occasion. This cannot be used as a justification for a "factory error", and it only moderately reduces the value of a Luger this fine. As you suggest, it is much more likely that someone would have tried to find a close replacement for a broken or missing part.

--Dwight

lugercollector · 11-21-2005, 08:42 AM

In handling many original Lugers I have seen at least 10 with one small part that was factory mismatched by only one digit!!! I think they were assembly line errors....

byf43 · 11-21-2005, 09:52 AM

Lugercollector

I tend to believe that possible as well. In particular a certain K98k leads me to believe so (I guess it could happen with any firearm). It has one part with a serial deviating with one. This part is worn in the blueing exactly in the same way as the rest of the rifle. Same colour/wear. I know for sure that it hasn't been messed with since the war ended.

But of course even if it happened by mistake at the factory there is still a chance that someone searched long and hard for a close match replacement (even in condition).

turnerhicks · 11-21-2005, 11:57 AM

Yes, the magazine is a new mecgar replacement, I don't have an original. I think the aluminium base mags would be correct for this model. I don't think I'll shoot this one though. I also have a reblued, but older DWM that is a better "shooter grade".

Regarding the serial number, my guess is that it is a factory error/replacement, but I have no proof of it. I don't know enough about the production process to know if it would be possible for the part to be switched out at inspection after the parts are stamped with numbers. I don't know why someone would search hard enough to get a matching part that's still off by one digit, but there is still the chance it's random since there are only 2 digits. Hopefully, someone will come along with a definite answer about the possibility of this.

Turner

wworker · 11-27-2005, 06:56 AM

I work in a factory and even with inspectors, occasional errors still get through, so it is no surprise to me to see a numbered part one digit off.

This has been an interesting thread. Without a personal inspection, I can see how difficult it would be to really verify the "correctness" of serial numbers.

I've bought a few Lugers via auctions and although the outside numbers may match, I don't know about the rest of the Luger until I receive it.

Ron Wood · 11-27-2005, 12:52 PM

Two comments:
1. Terrific photos...hats off to your skill.
2. If the one digit mis-match of that part lowers the value of your Luger by more than $10, then we have become a hobby of elitist nitpickers.

Vlim · 11-27-2005, 05:01 PM

Hi,

One thing puzzles me, there appears to be a sort of edge along the striped line of the left toggle. I've never observed that before.

I sincerely doubt that the '86' mismatch was a factory problem. The mishap could have happened somewhere during it's service life, or someone just found a replacement part which was 1 number off, as stated earlier.

Never underestimate German quality control, especially that of the Army, which bordered on the lines of insanity.

turnerhicks · 11-29-2005, 10:10 AM

Thanks to everyone for their ideas. The groove on the toggle goes a little less than halfway around the cylinder. It's deeper than just a scratch, and I don't see any way for that area to be worn like than from use. Once again, I know nothing about Luger factory methods, but it looks almost like it was put into the bevel making machine backwards. Could this be an apprentice/trainee built pistol? In 1937, the Spanish Civil War was on, and the Germans probably knew they were about to need as many Lugers as possible, so maybe they loosened their cosmetic standards for a functioning, but slightly odd pistol....
Turner

Vlim · 11-29-2005, 02:06 PM

Hi Turner,

I guess that everything is possible, although quality control was good, a bit too fanatical really when it came to military acceptance. As the anomaly is purely a cosmetic one, there is a change it made it through the quality control system.

The Mauser production figures don't show any major changes in pistol production quantities. From 1934 onwards, they steadily increased production to a maximum of some 120,000 pistols a year, a pace which was kept until the introduction of the P38, which was easier to produce which explains the higher pistol output after 1942.

hertzdonut · 12-01-2005, 10:42 AM

Turner, Great Luger and beautiful photography. Can you share camera and lighting used? Any special settings? Any tips? Thanks.

Kohaku2416 · 12-17-2005, 05:55 PM

Wow thats a nice Luger you have there! If you decide to get rid of it look me up. I have been searching for a shooter grade S/42 for a long time now. If you are interested i would be more then happy to trade you for your luger for my 44 magnum Desert Eagle. But thats like i said if ur really wanting to get rid of it of course

11-12-2005, 09:08 PM	#1
turnerhicks User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1937 S/42 Hello, First post, I wanted to get your feedback on this Luger. I've only done some basic research on it, so feel free to correct any of the following. It's a 1937 S/42 early version with strawed parts. Serial number t85, I think strawing was eliminated later in the "t" group. The pins are the blue colored type of bluing. All parts are matching "85" except for the hold-open latch, which is numbered "86". There is some pitting and holster wear, but the finish looks better in real life than in the pictures. I grease-penciled some of the stamps to try to make them show up better. There are a lot of internal inspection stamps. The Gesichert paint was pretty much all gone. I haven't shot it, the bore isn't shiny, but the grooves look sharp. Left grip panel wiggles approx 1/32 of an inch, right panel is tight. No mag, no holster. I would appreciate whatever info you could give on this pistol. I can take additional pictures. I'm trying to decide to keep or sell it. Turner

11-12-2005, 10:22 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,919 Thanks: 1,998 Thanked 4,511 Times in 2,083 Posts	Turner, welcome to the forum! Can you show the hold open and the number 86? To some folks, this would be a mismatch and make it worth $500-$600 as a shooter, if it is just the one part, then to others, it makes a low end collectable as it appears to be in good shape, although worn here and there. Have you checked the bolt, breechblock and firing pin to see if they are numbered 85? Any cool story on where it came from, or was it a good deal / trade? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-27-2005, 12:52 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,995 Thanks: 1,072 Thanked 5,115 Times in 1,682 Posts	Two comments: 1. Terrific photos...hats off to your skill. 2. If the one digit mis-match of that part lowers the value of your Luger by more than $10, then we have become a hobby of elitist nitpickers. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-01-2005, 10:42 AM	#17
hertzdonut User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Turner, Great Luger and beautiful photography. Can you share camera and lighting used? Any special settings? Any tips? Thanks. __________________ Rick

11-13-2005, 12:05 AM	#3
turnerhicks User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello again, Thanks for the help. I field stripped it to check the numbers again, and the extractor, breech, both toggle parts, and the main field stripping pin are all 85s. The hold open is 86. It'd be nice if somebody was looking at 86t and wondering why it had an 85 hold-open, but I won't get my hopes up. I'll post a picture of it tomorrow. I didn't see any more numbers in that area. This Luger has been passed around within my family for at least 30 years, but I don't think it was a bringback or anything like that. Turner

11-13-2005, 09:18 AM	#4
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Turner, Welcome to the Luger Forum! Your 1937 S/42 Luger was completed about April 1937. As you noted it has strawed small parts and is most likely rust blued with polished inside surfaces. It is somewhat unique in that it also has a feature known as the "Mauser Hump" or "Mauser Bump" on the back edge of the frame. This feature was implemented during the transition between the rust blue finishing process and the hot dip blue process which followed in early 1937. The number of Lugers that contain this combination of rust blue with strawed small parts AND the Mauser Hump is relatively small. The serial range for this group is between about 7000s to 2000t, but not all the Lugers in that range have these features. It's unfortunate the hold open is not numbered to the pistol, as it would have increased the value of your pistol. Never the less, it's a somewhat rare bird. Thanks for providing the great photos.

11-13-2005, 01:25 PM	#5
turnerhicks User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here are a few more pictures as promised: Mauser bump: Interior: Sideplate and latch: Area under sideplate: Thanks for the help, Lugers are such interesting bits of history. Turner

11-20-2005, 04:14 AM	#6
Stef User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Petit-rechain (Belgium) Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi, I'm novice in the Luger knowledge. Looking your pictures I notice that the magazine button in dark or black. Is it the correct magazine for a 1937 model? I was expecting to find an aluminium one. Bye, Stef

11-20-2005, 05:39 AM	#7
byf43 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First thanks you for the fantastic pictures!!! Second I'd like to ask about the hold open. Your's deviate with only 1. I'm asking about one in another thread which deviates with 2. Now my question is, could this happen at the factory? Or has someone searched long and hard to find a replacement part which is as close as possible to the rest of the pistols serial? I've seen K98k's with a single (in one case 2 parts) part deviating with 1. Otherwise they're matching numbers. One of these K98k's was forgotten when the war ended and left untouched until found few years ago. Thus I know for sure that noone has tinkered with it post war. Finally I'll second Stef. My thoughts exactly.

11-21-2005, 02:47 AM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Mikkel, There are occasional reports of original, un-messed-with Lugers with a parts mismatch like the one here--with the production of hundreds of thousands of Lugers it is likely to happen on the odd occasion. This cannot be used as a justification for a "factory error", and it only moderately reduces the value of a Luger this fine. As you suggest, it is much more likely that someone would have tried to find a close replacement for a broken or missing part. --Dwight

11-21-2005, 08:42 AM	#9
lugercollector Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: canada Posts: 322 Thanks: 0 Thanked 25 Times in 15 Posts	In handling many original Lugers I have seen at least 10 with one small part that was factory mismatched by only one digit!!! I think they were assembly line errors....

11-21-2005, 09:52 AM	#10
byf43 User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 69 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Lugercollector I tend to believe that possible as well. In particular a certain K98k leads me to believe so (I guess it could happen with any firearm). It has one part with a serial deviating with one. This part is worn in the blueing exactly in the same way as the rest of the rifle. Same colour/wear. I know for sure that it hasn't been messed with since the war ended. But of course even if it happened by mistake at the factory there is still a chance that someone searched long and hard for a close match replacement (even in condition).

11-21-2005, 11:57 AM	#11
turnerhicks User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, the magazine is a new mecgar replacement, I don't have an original. I think the aluminium base mags would be correct for this model. I don't think I'll shoot this one though. I also have a reblued, but older DWM that is a better "shooter grade". Regarding the serial number, my guess is that it is a factory error/replacement, but I have no proof of it. I don't know enough about the production process to know if it would be possible for the part to be switched out at inspection after the parts are stamped with numbers. I don't know why someone would search hard enough to get a matching part that's still off by one digit, but there is still the chance it's random since there are only 2 digits. Hopefully, someone will come along with a definite answer about the possibility of this. Turner

11-27-2005, 06:56 AM	#12
wworker User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 65 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I work in a factory and even with inspectors, occasional errors still get through, so it is no surprise to me to see a numbered part one digit off. This has been an interesting thread. Without a personal inspection, I can see how difficult it would be to really verify the "correctness" of serial numbers. I've bought a few Lugers via auctions and although the outside numbers may match, I don't know about the rest of the Luger until I receive it.

11-27-2005, 05:01 PM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,958 Times in 1,200 Posts	Hi, One thing puzzles me, there appears to be a sort of edge along the striped line of the left toggle. I've never observed that before. I sincerely doubt that the '86' mismatch was a factory problem. The mishap could have happened somewhere during it's service life, or someone just found a replacement part which was 1 number off, as stated earlier. Never underestimate German quality control, especially that of the Army, which bordered on the lines of insanity.

11-29-2005, 10:10 AM	#15
turnerhicks User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to everyone for their ideas. The groove on the toggle goes a little less than halfway around the cylinder. It's deeper than just a scratch, and I don't see any way for that area to be worn like than from use. Once again, I know nothing about Luger factory methods, but it looks almost like it was put into the bevel making machine backwards. Could this be an apprentice/trainee built pistol? In 1937, the Spanish Civil War was on, and the Germans probably knew they were about to need as many Lugers as possible, so maybe they loosened their cosmetic standards for a functioning, but slightly odd pistol.... Turner

11-29-2005, 02:06 PM	#16
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,958 Times in 1,200 Posts	Hi Turner, I guess that everything is possible, although quality control was good, a bit too fanatical really when it came to military acceptance. As the anomaly is purely a cosmetic one, there is a change it made it through the quality control system. The Mauser production figures don't show any major changes in pistol production quantities. From 1934 onwards, they steadily increased production to a maximum of some 120,000 pistols a year, a pace which was kept until the introduction of the P38, which was easier to produce which explains the higher pistol output after 1942.

12-17-2005, 05:55 PM	#18
Kohaku2416 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Muncie Indiana Posts: 124 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Wow thats a nice Luger you have there! If you decide to get rid of it look me up. I have been searching for a shooter grade S/42 for a long time now. If you are interested i would be more then happy to trade you for your luger for my 44 magnum Desert Eagle. But thats like i said if ur really wanting to get rid of it of course