My .30 Shooter Works Pretty Well

[ithacaartist]

From the thread "Cartridges are too short" (http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=37210) I have copied my posts, added pics, and will post final results of my "official" tests, in which I have paid attention to how the different manufacturers' ammos work in my shooter.

The shooter itself, an 06 AE, was won at RIAC about six years ago. It arrived with a rather beaten up barrel, front sight, and grips. I first arranged for a nicer left grip from Hugh Clark. Next step was to procure a nice 6" barrel from Ed Tinker, who had one he'd bought from G.T. The 6" military style barrel, however, I had my machinist turn down to present the "pencil taper" that I wanted. I had a local gunsmith remove the old barrel, but he demurred from installing and head-spacing the new one...so I sent the new barrel and upper to G.T. for installation, right after he announced on the forum that he was willing to provide this service. As usual, G.T. provided great work and short turnaround time!

My next step was to re-straw the appropriate small parts in the toaster oven after I'd spiffed them back to shininess. The barrel is still in the white, but the gun now looks pretty good in spite of that. I'll either tackle the rust bluing myself at some point, or send the upper to Thor for a little of his maybe the side plate, too, since it is quite rounded from wear.

I have placed an "x" after each brand of ammo that has been sent downrange with no problems, two mags each. I have one more to go, the Remington dark green box. I'll refrain from testing the Swedish military surplus ammo from the former Samco because I'll be using the last of what I have for an upcoming IDPA match, during which most of it will be lost. I consider it expendable in this way because it was reasonably priced, but Berdan primed. I may convert whatever I have saved to accept Boxer primers, so the more is lost in the grass, the less work I'll have to do.


Winchester White Box......................1.150 x

Winchester Red and Yellow Box.......1.150 x

Remington Green and Yellow Box.....1.131 x

Remington Dark Green Box..............1.134 x

Fiocchi Gray Box Brown Printing.......1.127 x

Fiocchi Purple Box............................1.119 x

Fiocchi Black Box..............................1.123 x

Fiocchi Silver Box..............................1.123 x

Swedish surplus..............................1.167 x

Norma..............................................1.151 X

[Eugen]

David, well, that is a fascinating project and interesting journey. Thanks for sharing the story. I hope the Luger serves you well.

[DonVoigt]

Dave,
thanks for starting the thread and describing your .30 shooter.
NICE!

I think I know one factor or maybe the main reason yours works so well- really simple- the extra 2" of barrel gives you a significantly higher fps and thus more "reserve" energy to operate the mechanism compared with most folk's 4" shooters. JMHO. You may have also lucked out with a nice feed ramp.

I also notice you are missing the black box Fiocchi in your evaluation, which has been the most problematic for me.

Only way I could get them to work was to "stretch" them by partially pulling the bullets and then re-seating and re-crimping at a longer OAL.

I have two or three "un-stretched" boxes left and the shop I frequent has maybe 10 more. These are also the JSP, but I've had the same problem with FMJ in the black box too.

I believe we "established" that Fiocchi has changed their loading of .30 luger over the years from good to bad to good and maybe back to bad again. This kind of coincides with their box colors of grey, purple, black, but some is marked .30 and other 7,65 mm and some 7.65mm - IIRC.

Perhaps someone remembers the thread and can add a link here, though it may have been on the other luger forum.

[Chickenthief]

Enlighten me.

You are talking .30 Luger and then Swedish surplus ammo?
The Swedes never had any military sidearm in .30 Luger/7,65x21
Please see link: http://www.amkat.se/index.php?Env=Ba...&Menu_Value_B=

Do you mean Swiss as in the country in the alps making chocolate and running banks?

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Chickenthief

Enlighten me.

You are talking .30 Luger and then Swedish surplus ammo?
The Swedes never had any military sidearm in .30 Luger/7,65x21
Please see link: http://www.amkat.se/index.php?Env=Ba...&Menu_Value_B=

Do you mean Swiss as in the country in the alps making chocolate and running banks?

I think he means from Finland- right next door.

[Chickenthief]

Fair enough squire :-)

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I think he means from Finland- right next door.

My mistake. I didn't look up the thread about it, just "remembered" it was Scandinavian. The thread announced its availability, and I ordered it twice to the tune of 250 and 500 rounds, IIRC. It came in boxes of 25, and I remember posting some pics of the different vintage boxes I'd received. The boxes had a handy pull flap that tore the paper label that also kept the boxes sealed. The rounds were nicely sealed, both bullet and primer, and never failed.

[rhuff]

Dave,

Thanx for your testing and reporting on your Luger with the different brands and OAL, of 30Luger ammo. I wish that I would have purchased more of the Finnish ammo from Samco, but by the time I determined that it works excellent in all of my 30 Luger handguns, they were belly up.....my loss. Perhaps a new owner will show up one of these days, and have the ammo for sale again.

[Chickenthief]

PPU/Prvi is 100% OK fodder for Parabellums ;-)

When i have emptied this 500pcs i have 1200 pieces of PPU brass and 1100 PPU 93grain bullets to top them of with.

[Chickenthief]

Oh, and the load (and similar):

1217fps~371m/s from 4"

5.2gr Swiss RS20
4.9gr Accurate #2
4.5gr Alliant Bullseye
5.1gr Alliant Unique
5.5gr Alliant Herco
4.8gr Hodgon Universal
6.1gr Hodgon Longshot
5.6gr Ramshot Silhouette
5.2gr Vv N340
5.6gr Winchester WAP

[Chickenthief]

And the PPU bullet is:

36-01450 B-549 .308" 6.0gram~93grains WM-FMJ

But to find it stateside is a drag :-(

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rhuff

Dave,

Thanx for your testing and reporting on your Luger with the different brands and OAL, of 30Luger ammo. I wish that I would have purchased more of the Finnish ammo from Samco, but by the time I determined that it works excellent in all of my 30 Luger handguns, they were belly up.....my loss. Perhaps a new owner will show up one of these days, and have the ammo for sale again.

We can hope! But time will tell. I snagged a pic of one of the boxes from the thread about the Finnish Luger rig. One of the two orders I made included darker, older-looking labels.

Originally Posted by Chickenthief

And the PPU bullet is:

36-01450 B-549 .308" 6.0gram~93grains WM-FMJ

But to find it stateside is a drag :-(

In my searches, more than a drag--I've never seen it offered. It would be well worth having the proper weight projectile, but alas, these bullets are virtually unobtainable. PPU and Lapua ammo show up on ammoseek.com, wish I had $600 to spare!

[rhuff]

I remember seeing the two different boxes that you received from Samco. My order was placed after your first order, and my ammo came in boxes with the old dark label....VTP/55.

You might check with GT and see if he has any of his 93gr Swiss FMJ bullets left hanging around. They are proper at .309 in. He bought quite a quantity and I purchased a fair amount from him. They are a great bullet, and perform 100%. Just a thought.

[DonVoigt]

Here is a little more info on .30 luger from todays outing.
Fired:
Fiocchi PSP black box - approx avg OAL only 1.11 to 1.12 in
Privi Partizan- avg. OAL 1.165 to 1.170
Reloads- adjusted to 1.178 OAL

Pistols:
#1- 1920 Commercial with 6" bbl.
#2- 1900 Commercial with 4 5/8" bbl.
#3- Custom baby luger with 2 5/8" bbl.

Results:
#1 shot any and all without any problems, including hold open after final shot from mag,
I attribute this to the longer barrel.

#2 ok with Privi and reloads, did not like the Fiocchi much, none would lock open after last round
I believe this was a problem with the pistol, I've worked on it a little and think next time out the hold open will be active, so will test again with all three.

#3- The baby fed and shot all three types without problem, but would not activate hold open.
I think this was a function of the lower velocity from the short barrel and lack of full recoil to hold open. The frame is shortened also, and the recoil spring is "special", and short! I have an interchangeable barrel/receiver in 9mm and it activates the hold open as it is supposed to. This highly modified pistol is not a good test piece for ammo, but I did want to see how it did with these loads.

One mag, a Swiss, did not want to feed the first round from a 7 round load without a little help.

All in all, much better than I expected; but the 6" is near perfect, like Dave's pistol.

Pictures of my 7,65mm "shooters".

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rhuff

I remember seeing the two different boxes that you received from Samco. My order was placed after your first order, and my ammo came in boxes with the old dark label....VTP/55.

You might check with GT and see if he has any of his 93gr Swiss FMJ bullets left hanging around. They are proper at .309 in. He bought quite a quantity and I purchased a fair amount from him. They are a great bullet, and perform 100%. Just a thought.

I bought a couple of bags from G.T. a while ago. IIRC, he said they are Swiss. They do look very slick and well made. I have not yet taken up the gauntlet of reloading, but I'm all set when the muse strikes, with a Lee Loadmaster, full set of .30 Luger dies, a bottle of Unique, Winchester small pistol primers, and an ever-growing stash of once-fired brass. I also have a couple hundred rounds of new, primed brass.

[rhuff]

You are very mechanically inclined, so you will likely be very successful in getting your Lee Loadmaster working to your satisfaction. That press does have a reputation among some for being a "beast" to get, and keep, working correctly. I have to feel that a certain percentage of folks have limited/minimal skills with mechanical things, and so are unhappy with the press. I have zero experience with that particular press, so I can't give any first hand evaluation.


Your plan with the Swiss bullets, Unique powder, and Winchester primers should produce excellent 30 Luger ammo.....when you are ready to take the plunge. Handloading is a great, and very satisfying hobby for me.

[4 Scale]

Originally Posted by Chickenthief

But to find it stateside is a drag :-(

I find it using "ammoseek". https://ammoseek.com

It isn't cheap, about .35 a round right now, but I've always been able to find it somewhere.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rhuff

That press does have a reputation among some for being a "beast" to get, and keep, working correctly.

That's what I heard, too. Apparently one must babysit the adjustments to maintain them, and the mechanical "sense" of which you spoke is important. Oh, well, it's sort of the same with cars.

I traded a Dillon Square Deal B press for the money to buy the new Loadmaster. I know a couple of the guys at the pistol club swear by it. Mainly, I wanted it for its versatility. The SDB was set up for .45 ACP, and when I found out it would cost over a hundred bucks for the kit to convert its capabilities to 9mm, that was the kicker.

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

I find it using "ammoseek". https://ammoseek.com

It isn't cheap, about .35 a round right now, but I've always been able to find it somewhere.

PPU ammo, yes...PPU bullets, no! I get only two hits for them on a search, both places are in Europe.

[K.Wilhelm]

I enjoy shooting my .30 Lugers even more than my 9s. Sieger, rhuff, and now David have been very helpful in the process of developing my skills in handloading this round. However, I have always found the .30 Luger to be more "forgiving" in my Lugers than 9mm. OAL doesn't seem to be as critical for example. With the 9mm my Lugers definitely respond better to the longer lengths (except for WWB which works well even though shorter). Anyway, thanks David for conducting the ammo tests- very interesting thread! Bill

[Chickenthief]

Here is a load of info on Finnish .30 Parabellum ammo:

https://translate.google.com/transla...tml&edit-text=