30 Luger Reloading Costs

[sheepherder]

In another thread, Zorba and Kurusu had this exchange...

Originally Posted by kurusu

If you'd roll your own it would be a lot cheaper.

Originally Posted by Zorba

Yea, it would. And certainly never say never. But I'm not there yet.

Here's my somewhat whimsical cost analysis of 30 Luger reloading...

30 Luger Reloading Costs

I'm in the process of ordering more bullets for my 30 Luger/7.65mm Parabellum reloading so I thought I'd add up the costs for a Luger owner/shooter interested in reloading and just starting out. 30 cal Lugers are considered cheaper to purchase than 9mm Lugers, but finding ammunition can be a pain, so here's my findings as of Sept 2016.

I did my 'shopping' at Midway. They had everything in stock. I prefer RCBS reloading components.

The RCBS Master Kit can be found on eBay for considerably less - I got my Kit used with all components for $120. Die sets can be found cheaper as well, but with less frequency. Midways' price for 30 Luger dies is quite reasonable.

Consumables I figured in batches of 100. That's bullets, primers, brass. Powder in lots of 1 pound.

The RCBS Master Kit consists of the following -

Master Kit Includes:

Rock Chucker Supreme Single Stage press
M500 scale
Uniflow Powder Measure
Nosler Reloading Manual
Hand priming tool with small and large primer plugs
Folding Hex Key Set with 0.050", 1/16", 5/64", 3/32", 7/64", 1/8", 9/64" and 5/32" keys
Universal Case Loading Block, which holds 40 cases in most rifle and pistol calibers
Case Lube Kit, which includes a 2 oz bottle of Case Lube-2, a case lube pad, 2 case neck brushes for .22 through .30 calibers and an accessory handle
Powder Funnel for .22 to .45 caliber, including the Winchester Short Magnum calibers
Chamfer and deburring tool for .17 through .60 caliber

There are other accessories that can be helpful, but this Kit will get a new reloader started.

Here's what I come up with -

30 Luger Reloading Costs

Brass - ~$23.00/100 Starline (Midway, new)
Powder - ~$21.00/lb (Alliant Red Dot, Midway)
Primers - ~$4.00/100 (CCI Small Pistol, Johnsons)
Bullets - ~$21.00/100 (Sierra 8005, Midway)

RCBS Kit - ~$150/$250 (eBay, used; $330.00 Midway, new)
RCBS Die Set - ~$36.00 (Midway, new)
RCBS Shellholder - ~$8.00 (Midway, new)

Total:

~$263 to $363 (est w/used Kit)
~$443 est (w/new Kit)

This would optimistically yield 100 loaded cartridge cases, ready to shoot. Some cases may be damaged and rendered unusable during setup of the die sets and/or seating the bullets.

I used Red Dot as my powder, because that is what I have on hand. Getting started will also require a secure bench/table to bolt the press to. Reloading can get messy/dirty at times, so a basement/garage/workshop environment is probably best.

That's not a lot of money, especially with a used RCBS Kit. I can get about 8 - 10 reloads from Remington brass (which is a softer alloy than Winchester) if I shoot light target loads. I visually inspect cases after sizing, and wipe completed cases and feel for cracks before placing the loaded cartridges in my box for shooting. A bullet puller, either kinetic or die/collet, is useful for salvaging powder and bullets (and primers too) if a case does crack or collapse. I've found that STP Oil Treatment is an excellent substitute for case lube, and much cheaper.

I have not found Carbide dies to be any easier to size cases. Hardened steel dies with case lube still yield the best and easiest results for me.

[sheepherder]

I believe Zorba was actually referring to 8mm Nambu reloading. The components are the same, but 8mm Nambu dies are harder to find and more expensive. Brass and bullets for 8mm Nambu are available from Huntington Die Specialties as well as Mr Nambu and other sources. RCBS makes the 8mm Nambu dies but they're not always available.

[Dick Herman]

Richard,

Thank you for your effort in developing this cost estimate. I have considered reloading numerous times. However, my reluctance has been the time required to learn the process. From your cost analysis I find buying new ammo to be a better choice for me.

Several years ago I purchased a fairly large quantity of of surplus .30 Luger from that outfit in Florida. I have been using up my supply, very nice clean ammo. The only down side is the ammo is berdan primed. I have a fairly good stash of .30 Luger once fired cases that seems to be a problem removing the primers.

[DonVoigt]

I think better in "per round" costs, the first load costs $0.69 if I added corrrectly.
If one gets ten reloads(optimistic?) from the new brass, the cost drops to about $0.49 per round.

Then add in the "amortization" of the components, at $250 for a "set" without a scale , so maybe $300 if you shop. Over 1000 rounds = $0.30, over 10k = $0.03

So your ammo costs you $0.52 at 10k rounds and $0.79 at 1000 rounds.

For most folks time is money; but maybe reloading is fun for some(not for me).

I'm with Dick, I'll just buy my ammo- or get a good friend to load it! Of course if you can't find it, that is another reason to load.

Thanks to Rich for doing the leg work on this.

Sure makes one appreciate the price of 9mm or .223 at $0.30-0.35 or occasionally even less per round.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

I think better in "per round" costs, the first load costs $0.69 if I added corrrectly.

I got bogged down trying to convert grains to grams/pounds, and quickly lost interest in per-round pricing...

Then add in the "amortization" of the components, at $250 for a "set" without a scale

The RCBS Master Kit includes a scale, whether used [complete] or new. Not sure why you mentioned that?

For most folks time is money; but maybe reloading is fun for some(not for me).

For some cartridges, especially wildcats, reloading is the only way to go. You could wait months for Mr Nambu to load up a batch of 8mm rounds or do your own. I usually reload in front of my TV while watching some rerun of my favorite shows - the new scripted reality shows have no interest for me.

One (or two) important accessories for reloading is a sturdy desk and a chair/stool to go with it. I like the steel office desks that are available everywhere used, and usually cheap. A roll-around office chair is handy for scooting back & forth from scale to press. I weigh every 10th load to make sure my powder measure is holding true. I pour 10 measures into 10 cases in my case block and visually inspect the cases to make sure all cases have the same level of powder in them before I seat the bullets.

I do 'batch' reloading. I typically size 50 rds, then de-prime those 50, then prime the 50, then charge the 50, then seat bullets in the 50. It doesn't take long to do each operation for 50 cases, and I can break off and do something else and leave the 50 for further work at any time. I tried progressive reloading, and was annoyed at the amount of time required to set up components and break them down again after 50 rds. Powder & primers must be stored, not left out. Batch cases can be put in a Tupperware [or similar] storage container to preserve primers from humidity. With a progressive press, you're committed to doing the entire run of cases.

I also have many accessories to make things easier; a kinetic bullet puller to reclaim powder/bullets/primers from ruined cases; a micrometer powder measure for my powder dispenser; a case trimmer [two actually]; a primer pocket reamer; de-burring tools, etc.

/rant

[spacecoast]

I rarely buy brass, for the common calibers I pick it up for free at the range. .30 Luger doesn't fall into that category, but it doesn't cost nearly as much when you use it multiple times, which I do. I recently got a deal on 700 bullets and 700 cases for $150 shipped, or 10 cents/piece.

.30 Luger is a great round - one of the trickier to get the dies adjusted for correctly, but very worthwhile when it's hard to find new boxes of it under $20. I see common 9mm here for $11 a box, about twice my cost to reload.

[DonVoigt]

Rich,
I did not know a scale was "included", that is why I mentioned it- one needs one or some kind of measure. The $300 is still a nice round figure- and it would be easy to spend a little more.

Time- I seem to waste all my spare time on the computer.

[rhuff]

Originally Posted by Dick Herman

Richard,



Several years ago I purchased a fairly large quantity of of surplus .30 Luger from that outfit in Florida. I have been using up my supply, very nice clean ammo. The only down side is the ammo is berdan primed. I have a fairly good stash of .30 Luger once fired cases that seems to be a problem removing the primers.

Dick,

I don't know if you are aware that Samco in Fla. has closed down (if that is where you were purchasing your surplus 30 Luger ammo).....I purchased some from there and it is good range ammo. One can remove the berdan primers(with enough persistence), but I know of no source in USA for berden small pistol primers. I also have a fair amount of that brass, as I can not leave 30 Luger brass laying on the floor.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by rhuff

Dick,

I don't know if you are aware that Samco in Fla. has closed down (if that is where you were purchasing your surplus 30 Luger ammo).....I purchased some from there and it is good range ammo. One can remove the berdan primers(with enough persistence), but I know of no source in USA for berden small pistol primers. I also have a fair amount of that brass, as I can not leave 30 Luger brass laying on the floor.

Richard, I was disappointed as well when I heard the news about Samco. I had bought about 750 rounds from them, in two orders, and for its price, and also saving the need to convert the Berdan primed brass, I was happy to use it for IDPA matches--where most of it was lost in the grass.

[noylj]

So, factory ammo costs about 40 cents/round.
You include the cost of reloading equipment, but so what, are you going to resell it after you load 100 rounds? If so, you have to deduct the money you'll get back.
It does stand to reason that if you only plan to shoot about 100 rounds, even per year, and not reload any other cartridges, the fixed costs are rather high and it would take a long time to pay for itself.

For most of us, you don't buy in quantities of 100. You buy in quantities of 1000 or more.
I buy bullets in quantities of 3000 or more.
Primers are usually purchased in sleeves of 5000.

Brass - ~$23.00/100 Starline (Midway, new):
If you don't lose them, you'll probably get 10 loads out of them (with trimming as required), so the cost of a 23 cent case would be 2.3 cents/round fired.
Powder - ~$21.00/lb (Alliant Red Dot, Midway).
What's your load? Probably about 3gn of powder. So, let's just say 4 gn of Red Dot. 1 lb of Red Dot is 7000 gn, so, at 4 gn/load, there are 1750 loads in that pound. If the powder cost $21, then each round costs 1.2 cents for powder
Primers - ~$4.00/100 (CCI Small Pistol, Johnsons).
Seems pretty expensive, but OK 4 cents/round
Bullets - ~$21.00/100 (Sierra 8005, Midway).
Wow, you can't find cheaper any where? I hope your factory ammo uses at least the same quality premium bullet. 21 cents/round for bullets.
So, expendable/consumable cost is 2.3 + 1.2 + 4 + 21 = 28-29 cents/round, compared to about 40 cents/round for factory--and that is without even trying to find less expensive options (like using the brass cases from factory ammo you already purchased).

[K.Wilhelm]

Since I handload for a number of calibers, I don't add the cost of basic equipment to the .30 Luger costs. Of course, the dies are specific, so I do add them. I figure my costs overall are about .25 per round. But since handloading and shooting .30 Luger is priceless to me, I don't worry about the cost anyway. Bill

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by noylj

For most of us, you don't buy in quantities of 100. You buy in quantities of 1000 or more.

I'm not rich like you. I buy/reload what I'll shoot that week. Maybe 200. That's a good two hours worth of shooting.

Any more is too far in the future to plan for.

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by sheepherder

I'm not rich like you.

AH!

If it took 100 Dollars to go around the globe, I wouldn't have enough to get out of sight.

[mrerick]

But sheepherder IS Rich!!!!!

If considering getting into reloading, it's important to understand that the bottleneck cartridges like the .30 Luger are a bit more complex to reload than straight walled cartridges like the 9mm.

If beginning in reloading, it is wise to first start with straight walled cartridges like the 9mm and .45acp that headspace on the cartridge mouth, and then progress to the bottleneck (which headspace on the neck).

When lubricating bottleneck cartridge cases, ensure that you don't overuse lubricant - which can deform cases under the hydraulic pressure built up in resizing dies.

Many considering reloading for the .30 Luger cartridge have already been reloading other calibers - so the incremental costs are less since dies and components are all that need be acquired.

What are the favorite bullets (currently available) for .30 Luger? Any FMJ in particular?

[kurusu]

Originally Posted by mrerick

But sheepherder IS Rich!!!!!

How very true.


Hmm, sorry, couldn't help it.

[rhuff]

I enjoy going to the range 1-2/week, so I go through a fair amount of ammo over a years time. I shoot .22cal through 45LC, and pretty much everything in between. If I did not handload, my shooting would definitely be curtailed due to the price of the ammo. I started handloading back in the "dark ages" and have paid for my reloading equipment many times over when comparing the cost of my handloads to new ammo. I am retired now, and have more time, but I enjoy handloading. I like the thought of taking rejected brass(by many shooters), and handloading it to better ammo than it was originally, for about 1/2 the cost, or less. It is a sense of accomplishment for me.

Handloading is not for everyone. If you are not a bit OCD, then perhaps you should stay away. You are handling explosive(primers) and flammable(powder) components, and if put together incorrectly, will lead to a kaboom that can/will damage gun and possibly shooter. One has to keep their head in the game and focus on the job.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by rhuff

You are handling explosive(primers) and flammable(powder) components, and if put together incorrectly, will lead to a kaboom that can/will damage gun and possibly shooter....

I would add that the above goes for the actual reloading as well. In another thread I mentioned primers backing out due to tight bullets and air pressure forcing the primer out while seating the bullet. I have had it happen that after I had primed, charged with powder, and seated the bullet, the completed cartridge would not slide out of the shell holder. The partially backed-out primer was holding it in.

I thought about it for a while, then decided that the shell holder + cartridge would fit in my kinetic bullet puller. It successfully extracted the bullet & powder, and I could then put the case + holder back in the press and push the primer back up. I threw that case away, but from then on, whenever adding powder to a primed case, I wear safety glasses.

Just in case...

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Rich,
I did not know a scale was "included", that is why I mentioned it- one needs one or some kind of measure.

My first RCBS 'kit' was back in the late 70's and the scale was included. It has changed slightly over the years but is still part of the 'kit'. IIRC, the 70's 'kit' was called the RCBS basic or maybe the junior kit, as there was a bigger/more optioned press. The 70's press had the 7/8" x 14tpi threaded hole for the dies directly in the cast iron press body. The 'master kit' I got on eBay has a steel insert, something like 1" x 12 or similar in the press body and that is tapped 7/8" x 14. I suppose that was to accommodate the 50 BMG that was gaining popularity 10 years ago.

Got my Midway flyer yesterday; they have the RCBS 'Supreme Kit' on sale. It now has a hand primer, mine (and the 70's model) had a primer arm that attached to the press body. The cartridge block has changed too, but the powder measure is as clumsy as ever.

The new 'supreme' press has changed also, it's now ambidextrous. The spent primer bag is different too. There also seem to be a couple other changes in the casting but I'm not able to see exactly what they are from the small picture.

That's a good price for a new kit.