Imperial Navy Holster - Page 2

A.Mifsin · 07-03-2009, 08:36 AM

What kind of a thread it was used in those days to make a holster? It looks like a rough thread to me. Is it still available to day, or is there a substitute for it?

Alf.

wlyon · 07-03-2009, 11:31 AM

Klaus
Thank you. What does the AG or Act. Ges stand for? Bill

klaus 3338 · 07-03-2009, 05:08 PM

Bill, AG or Act. Ges. = Actien (Aktien today) Gesellschaft means joint-stock company or incorporated company (according my dictionary).
Best regards Klaus

wlyon · 07-03-2009, 06:18 PM

Klaus
Thank you. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. Regards Bill

alanint · 07-04-2009, 05:07 AM

To answer Alf's question; I believe waxed linen thread was usually used on lether holsters, harnesses, etc in that era.

A.Mifsin · 07-04-2009, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

To answer Alf's question; I believe waxed linen thread was usually used on lether holsters, harnesses, etc in that era.

Thank You very much alanint.

Alf.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-04-2009, 09:49 AM

Alf, Doug is correct. Synthetics were not developed to any extent untill the later years of WW2. Most all holsters and other leather items made by any country prior to 1945 were made with linen thread.
Linen is a plant fiber made from the Flax plant. It is twisted from smaller strands much like hemp rope. It is typically seen in 2-3-4-5-7- strand. German Luger holsters are usually made with the 3 or 4 strand. Oddly enough the later the holster the thicker the thread. 1940-43 holsters usually have very thick thread.
Yes, linen thread is available today. I get mine out of Ireland.
There are substitutes for it but they are inferior to the real thing for a number of reasons.

Jerry Burney

A.Mifsin · 07-05-2009, 12:13 PM

Jerry, doing some search about what linen thread I found that it is sold with code say 35/3, while the second number is the no of threads the first is the thickness, what is the thickness number for the holster thread please? Thanks.

Alf.

lugerholsterrepair · 07-05-2009, 12:33 PM

Alf, I have never heard of this code...what is the thickness number ? Heck if I know. Where did you find this? Send me a link and I will take a look if you like.

Jerry Burney

A.Mifsin · 07-05-2009, 12:49 PM

I found it on ebay uk
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290326088994
Thanks
Alf

lugerholsterrepair · 07-05-2009, 01:19 PM

Alf..How LinienThread Sizes are calculated.

No.1 yarn is 1 pound of flax spun to a length of 300 yards.
No.2 yarn is 1 pound of flax spun to a length of 600 yards.
And thus;
No.18 yarn is 1 pound of flax spun to a length of 5,400 yards. (300 x 18 = 5,400)

Taking for example a "18/3" thread.

The "3" refers to the number of yarns that have been plied together.
The "18" indicates that it takes 5,400 yards of such yarn to weigh a pound.

It can be seen why bigger numbers mean smaller thread -- the thinner the yarns, the more of them it takes to make a pound.

To conclude.
A 35/3 thread is made of three yarns, each made from 1 pound of flax spun out to 10,500 yards and then twisted together.

Are you trying to repair a holster?

By my calculations I would guess you would want a #18/3 or a #18/4 strand depending on what holster you are wanting to restore.

Hope this helps...

Jerry Burney

A.Mifsin · 07-06-2009, 03:30 AM

Thank you Jerry, great, it is the information I needed. I have this WWl holster with a loose belt loop and I wish to fix it, so I thought I do it at least with the right thread,

From your notes I think I should use #18/3 thread.
Thank you Jerry, thank you alanint.
Alf.

Gibcity · 07-06-2009, 04:47 PM

Jerry,

When you do your holster repair do you use an "Off White" color thread?

Wayne

lugerholsterrepair · 07-06-2009, 05:03 PM

Wayne, There are 5 different colors I use depending on the holster. There are 2-3-4-5-7 strand threads so I have to have at least 4 sizes in 5 colors to have the thread necessary for almost any holster repair.

PPK holsters take different size & color threads than Luger holsters for instance.

Jerry Burney

Ice · 07-06-2009, 06:59 PM

This is a great thread with a load of fine info. Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge.

Charlie

Gibcity · 07-06-2009, 08:28 PM

Jerry,

When I cleaned up my holsters I use "Picards" and then buff the leather very lightly.
Some people use something that will gloss up the leather and make it slippery/smooth.
Would you know what they use as the final coat?

Wayne

lugerholsterrepair · 07-06-2009, 08:54 PM

Wayne, When I cleaned up my holsters I use "Picards" ..I am sorry to hear that. picards is ghastly waxy sticky goo and I would never ruin my vintage leather with this petroleum product.
I have no idea what to use for a final coat...after a coating of picard's what more is there? Motor oil? Tar? roofing cement?

Can you tell I am not a picards fan? I have railed against this crap for years and I still hear of collectors who insist on using it. I give up.

Jerry Burney

Gibcity · 07-06-2009, 09:23 PM

Jerry,

I have also used "Connolly Hide Care".
What do you recommend someone use?

Wayne

wlyon · 07-07-2009, 01:17 AM

Wayne
I think many of us have at one time used Pecards. That means many of us made a bad mistake. Use it on your winter boots. On your holster use Connolly's. If you insist on using Pecards look over your shoulder for a mad holsterrepairman. Bill

Navy · 07-07-2009, 09:50 AM

A small point: occasionally one encounters an imperial holster with orange thread. The orange is the result of the linen being treated with merthiolate to retard insect infestation.
Tom A.

07-03-2009, 08:36 AM	#21
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	What kind of a thread it was used in those days to make a holster? It looks like a rough thread to me. Is it still available to day, or is there a substitute for it? Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

07-03-2009, 11:31 AM	#22
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Klaus Thank you. What does the AG or Act. Ges stand for? Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-03-2009, 06:18 PM	#24
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Klaus Thank you. Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. Regards Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-04-2009, 09:49 AM	#27
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Alf, Doug is correct. Synthetics were not developed to any extent untill the later years of WW2. Most all holsters and other leather items made by any country prior to 1945 were made with linen thread. Linen is a plant fiber made from the Flax plant. It is twisted from smaller strands much like hemp rope. It is typically seen in 2-3-4-5-7- strand. German Luger holsters are usually made with the 3 or 4 strand. Oddly enough the later the holster the thicker the thread. 1940-43 holsters usually have very thick thread. Yes, linen thread is available today. I get mine out of Ireland. There are substitutes for it but they are inferior to the real thing for a number of reasons. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-05-2009, 12:13 PM	#28
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Jerry, doing some search about what linen thread I found that it is sold with code say 35/3, while the second number is the no of threads the first is the thickness, what is the thickness number for the holster thread please? Thanks. Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

07-03-2009, 05:08 PM	#23
klaus 3338 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 513 Thanks: 0 Thanked 394 Times in 156 Posts	Bill, AG or Act. Ges. = Actien (Aktien today) Gesellschaft means joint-stock company or incorporated company (according my dictionary). Best regards Klaus

07-04-2009, 05:07 AM	#25
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	To answer Alf's question; I believe waxed linen thread was usually used on lether holsters, harnesses, etc in that era.

07-05-2009, 12:33 PM	#29
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Alf, I have never heard of this code...what is the thickness number ? Heck if I know. Where did you find this? Send me a link and I will take a look if you like. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-05-2009, 12:49 PM	#30
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	I found it on ebay uk http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=290326088994 Thanks Alf __________________ I prefer a Luger

07-05-2009, 01:19 PM	#31
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Alf..How LinienThread Sizes are calculated. No.1 yarn is 1 pound of flax spun to a length of 300 yards. No.2 yarn is 1 pound of flax spun to a length of 600 yards. And thus; No.18 yarn is 1 pound of flax spun to a length of 5,400 yards. (300 x 18 = 5,400) Taking for example a "18/3" thread. The "3" refers to the number of yarns that have been plied together. The "18" indicates that it takes 5,400 yards of such yarn to weigh a pound. It can be seen why bigger numbers mean smaller thread -- the thinner the yarns, the more of them it takes to make a pound. To conclude. A 35/3 thread is made of three yarns, each made from 1 pound of flax spun out to 10,500 yards and then twisted together. Are you trying to repair a holster? By my calculations I would guess you would want a #18/3 or a #18/4 strand depending on what holster you are wanting to restore. Hope this helps... Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-06-2009, 03:30 AM	#32
A.Mifsin User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 570 Thanks: 74 Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts	Thank you Jerry, great, it is the information I needed. I have this WWl holster with a loose belt loop and I wish to fix it, so I thought I do it at least with the right thread, From your notes I think I should use #18/3 thread. Thank you Jerry, thank you alanint. Alf. __________________ I prefer a Luger

07-06-2009, 04:47 PM	#33
Gibcity User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 29 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry, When you do your holster repair do you use an "Off White" color thread? Wayne

07-06-2009, 05:03 PM	#34
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Wayne, There are 5 different colors I use depending on the holster. There are 2-3-4-5-7 strand threads so I have to have at least 4 sizes in 5 colors to have the thread necessary for almost any holster repair. PPK holsters take different size & color threads than Luger holsters for instance. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-06-2009, 06:59 PM	#35
Ice User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 552 Thanks: 13 Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts	This is a great thread with a load of fine info. Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge. Charlie

07-06-2009, 08:28 PM	#36
Gibcity User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 29 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry, When I cleaned up my holsters I use "Picards" and then buff the leather very lightly. Some people use something that will gloss up the leather and make it slippery/smooth. Would you know what they use as the final coat? Wayne

07-06-2009, 08:54 PM	#37
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Wayne, When I cleaned up my holsters I use "Picards" ..I am sorry to hear that. picards is ghastly waxy sticky goo and I would never ruin my vintage leather with this petroleum product. I have no idea what to use for a final coat...after a coating of picard's what more is there? Motor oil? Tar? roofing cement? Can you tell I am not a picards fan? I have railed against this crap for years and I still hear of collectors who insist on using it. I give up. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

07-06-2009, 09:23 PM	#38
Gibcity User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 29 Thanks: 9 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jerry, I have also used "Connolly Hide Care". What do you recommend someone use? Wayne

07-07-2009, 01:17 AM	#39
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Wayne I think many of us have at one time used Pecards. That means many of us made a bad mistake. Use it on your winter boots. On your holster use Connolly's. If you insist on using Pecards look over your shoulder for a mad holsterrepairman. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-07-2009, 09:50 AM	#40
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	A small point: occasionally one encounters an imperial holster with orange thread. The orange is the result of the linen being treated with merthiolate to retard insect infestation. Tom A.