Phoney Artillery Holster

lugerholsterrepair · 01-25-2005, 11:05 PM

Fellows, this holster is as fake as John Kerry's silver star. There have been some nice rigs sell recently for 2000 bucks or better but this is not one of those.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Here's another one. The seller makes no claims as to authenticity.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

Jerry Burney

Heinz · 01-31-2005, 05:31 AM

Jerry, This turkey went for over $2000. Wow!

Edward Tinker · 01-31-2005, 08:32 AM

Jerry, quit being so picky, afterall, it fits an Artillery lugAR !!

Navy · 01-31-2005, 09:08 AM

Another chump makes a large tuition payment at Luger U.

Tom A.

Tomathvl · 01-31-2005, 10:23 AM

Jerry,
It would be very helpful to us neophytes if you pointed out what is wrong with this holster. From the small pictures it's difficult to see much detail that shows what's wrong.
Tom A educated me at NAPCA regarding the smell test but that's difficult on eBay.
Thanks for your input,
Tom

lugerholsterrepair · 01-31-2005, 11:01 AM

Thanks everyone for their input on these horrible examples of newbie folly. They would have been much better off investing the same money in books.

Tom, I apologize, it will have to be short. I am behind a half dozen holsters and must work.

From what I remember on the stocked rig the boot is flimsey and not lined with rawhide. Not correct at all so it leads me to suspect the whole rig. The brass studs were clunky, not fine enough for German manufacture. They also had little or no patina. The metal screws in the stock were shiney too. Original stock screws are steel and have a heavy black patina.

On the holster, I asked the seller for a photo of the back and there is a belt loop below the stock block. This is indicative of a 1960's repro. The stock block also has only a single stitch down the middle and no block in the center. Two lines of stitching on the ends where only one is on originals. If one takes the time to look the details will jump out at you and tell the sad story.

I am often fooled at first glance. I always ask for a photo of the back of holsters as they will tell you more than the front.

Jerry Burney

Ron Wood · 01-31-2005, 11:08 AM

Thanks Jerry. This one would have fooled me. Ignorance is like the puppy peeing on the cash register...it runs into money.

Tomathvl · 01-31-2005, 12:31 PM

Thanks Jerry, that's helpful information to put in the old data bank.

Nice saying re: the puppy Ron, I think I'll use that one.

Tom

the gunman · 01-31-2005, 04:27 PM

This one did fool me I placed a bid earler on. than studdied the photo's some more. At that point the stock looked to new to me no age at all. Pity the poor guy who bought it.

lugerholsterrepair · 01-31-2005, 06:31 PM

There are quite a few old repro's out there and they will be 45 years old or so...Old enough to look original at first glance.

Ron, You crack me up! I guess it would run into money! I don't have much so I have to be very carefull .

Tom, I could detail a half dozen more little markers on both of these holsters. Sometimes the photo's are not good enough, if you wonder always ask for more detailed photo's.

I don't pity the buyer. We have always made mistakes, all of us. It is part of the learning curve. I feel it is my responsibility to educate myself or surround myself with others who are willing to help me. Thus, this great Forum. Thanks to all of you who contribute.

Jerry Burney

Pete Ebbink · 02-01-2005, 10:02 PM

Looks like a few LF members were also fooled and bid...at least none of these guys was the "winner"...

tnak · 02-02-2005, 09:24 PM

Here is a picture of the holster that is in question. Jerry did not see this exact picture, as I had already deleted the others from my files. I have just taken these, therefore, Jerry may have a different opinion. I do not profess to know anything about German Lugers or their accessories. That is why I have shown them to people who are more informed than I, to be able to offer an accurate description of them. I did not receive any negative comments regarding the holster from anyone who saw this in person, but then again, maybe they do not know what they are looking at or are as knowledgeable as Jerry. I too, would like to know what is wrong with these items, so I don't misrepresent them if I so happen to come across something similar again.

tnak · 02-02-2005, 09:33 PM

Here is a picture of the back of the holster. In person, the color of the leather does not stand out nearly as dramatically as the picture would indicate. I do not even know what the stock block is or the belt loop Jerry refers to, so again, I am asking for answers as to why this is incorrect. I have access to this holster for another day, so if anyone has any other questions or comments regarding this stock/holster, I would appreciate any comments. If the rig is as bad as Jerry described, then I will probably be getting it back, as I have a full money back return policy if not satisfied. I am not out to gouge or trick anyone, all I am trying to do is sell a stock and holster for what it is. Tracy

Pete Ebbink · 02-02-2005, 10:09 PM

Hi Tracy,

If you have the ensemble at home still, could you take and post better photos than were on e-Bay...a good detailed look would certainly help...

I cannot be sure but the serial number/sufix on the stock iron sure looks like it has a "halo" to me...but cannot be sure of the glare in the photo...

Glad to hear you are on the square and offer a refund...cannot fault anyone that does that !

Regards,

Pete...

tnak · 02-02-2005, 11:19 PM

Here is a picture of the stock iron. The original pictures I took for ebay showed all the detail, but when they post them on their auction site, they compress them and therefore, lose much of their clarity. That is why I always ask potential bidders to ask questions and email me for more pics. I emailed more detailed pictures to about 40 prospective bidders, sometimes more than once, when I originally didn't get the angle they wanted. Again, I want to proclaim that I am not trying to hide or deceive anyone. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. Tracy

tnak · 02-02-2005, 11:21 PM

Picture of the metal stock screws.

tnak · 02-02-2005, 11:22 PM

more screws

tnak · 02-02-2005, 11:44 PM

This will be the last picture, it is of the flap enclosure studs. My friend took these photo's for me and was able to downsize them for me. If anyone wants more pictures, I will directly email them , only they will be in a larger file. Thanks for looking and hopefully for some tips on what to look for and what not to look for. As you can see from the photo's, I am not trying to hide anything. I must admit, the screws look pretty new, but again, I don't know what they are supposed to look like. Tracy

Ron Wood · 02-03-2005, 12:22 AM

I gotta admit, it still fools me. To my uneducated eye I couldn't tell you if it was original or not. I wonder if we are looking at two different rigs? I don't see the double line of stitching on the ends of the stock block nor do I see a belt loop, the boot is lined, and the screws look patinated. ????

I'm glad I don't have to make the call.

tnak · 02-03-2005, 12:23 AM

I found another pic which I hadn't posted yet. It is a pic of a stamping of 1916 found on the inside portion of the endcap (closest to wood).

01-25-2005, 11:05 PM	#1
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Phoney Artillery Holster Fellows, this holster is as fake as John Kerry's silver star. There have been some nice rigs sell recently for 2000 bucks or better but this is not one of those. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT Here's another one. The seller makes no claims as to authenticity. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MEWA:IT Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know." Last edited by lugerholsterrepair; 01-26-2005 at 10:13 AM.

01-31-2005, 08:32 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Jerry, quit being so picky, afterall, it fits an Artillery lugAR !! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-31-2005, 11:01 AM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Thanks everyone for their input on these horrible examples of newbie folly. They would have been much better off investing the same money in books. Tom, I apologize, it will have to be short. I am behind a half dozen holsters and must work. From what I remember on the stocked rig the boot is flimsey and not lined with rawhide. Not correct at all so it leads me to suspect the whole rig. The brass studs were clunky, not fine enough for German manufacture. They also had little or no patina. The metal screws in the stock were shiney too. Original stock screws are steel and have a heavy black patina. On the holster, I asked the seller for a photo of the back and there is a belt loop below the stock block. This is indicative of a 1960's repro. The stock block also has only a single stitch down the middle and no block in the center. Two lines of stitching on the ends where only one is on originals. If one takes the time to look the details will jump out at you and tell the sad story. I am often fooled at first glance. I always ask for a photo of the back of holsters as they will tell you more than the front. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-31-2005, 11:08 AM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Thanks Jerry. This one would have fooled me. Ignorance is like the puppy peeing on the cash register...it runs into money. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-31-2005, 06:31 PM	#10
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	There are quite a few old repro's out there and they will be 45 years old or so...Old enough to look original at first glance. Ron, You crack me up! I guess it would run into money! I don't have much so I have to be very carefull . Tom, I could detail a half dozen more little markers on both of these holsters. Sometimes the photo's are not good enough, if you wonder always ask for more detailed photo's. I don't pity the buyer. We have always made mistakes, all of us. It is part of the learning curve. I feel it is my responsibility to educate myself or surround myself with others who are willing to help me. Thus, this great Forum. Thanks to all of you who contribute. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-31-2005, 05:31 AM	#2
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Jerry, This turkey went for over $2000. Wow!

01-31-2005, 09:08 AM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Another chump makes a large tuition payment at Luger U. Tom A.

01-31-2005, 10:23 AM	#5
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Jerry, It would be very helpful to us neophytes if you pointed out what is wrong with this holster. From the small pictures it's difficult to see much detail that shows what's wrong. Tom A educated me at NAPCA regarding the smell test but that's difficult on eBay. Thanks for your input, Tom

01-31-2005, 12:31 PM	#8
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Thanks Jerry, that's helpful information to put in the old data bank. Nice saying re: the puppy Ron, I think I'll use that one. Tom

01-31-2005, 04:27 PM	#9
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	This one did fool me I placed a bid earler on. than studdied the photo's some more. At that point the stock looked to new to me no age at all. Pity the poor guy who bought it.

02-01-2005, 10:02 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Looks like a few LF members were also fooled and bid...at least none of these guys was the "winner"...

02-02-2005, 09:24 PM	#12
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is a picture of the holster that is in question. Jerry did not see this exact picture, as I had already deleted the others from my files. I have just taken these, therefore, Jerry may have a different opinion. I do not profess to know anything about German Lugers or their accessories. That is why I have shown them to people who are more informed than I, to be able to offer an accurate description of them. I did not receive any negative comments regarding the holster from anyone who saw this in person, but then again, maybe they do not know what they are looking at or are as knowledgeable as Jerry. I too, would like to know what is wrong with these items, so I don't misrepresent them if I so happen to come across something similar again. Attached Images

02-02-2005, 09:33 PM	#13
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is a picture of the back of the holster. In person, the color of the leather does not stand out nearly as dramatically as the picture would indicate. I do not even know what the stock block is or the belt loop Jerry refers to, so again, I am asking for answers as to why this is incorrect. I have access to this holster for another day, so if anyone has any other questions or comments regarding this stock/holster, I would appreciate any comments. If the rig is as bad as Jerry described, then I will probably be getting it back, as I have a full money back return policy if not satisfied. I am not out to gouge or trick anyone, all I am trying to do is sell a stock and holster for what it is. Tracy Attached Images

02-02-2005, 10:09 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Tracy, If you have the ensemble at home still, could you take and post better photos than were on e-Bay...a good detailed look would certainly help... I cannot be sure but the serial number/sufix on the stock iron sure looks like it has a "halo" to me...but cannot be sure of the glare in the photo... Glad to hear you are on the square and offer a refund...cannot fault anyone that does that ! Regards, Pete...

02-02-2005, 11:19 PM	#15
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Here is a picture of the stock iron. The original pictures I took for ebay showed all the detail, but when they post them on their auction site, they compress them and therefore, lose much of their clarity. That is why I always ask potential bidders to ask questions and email me for more pics. I emailed more detailed pictures to about 40 prospective bidders, sometimes more than once, when I originally didn't get the angle they wanted. Again, I want to proclaim that I am not trying to hide or deceive anyone. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves. Tracy Attached Images Last edited by tnak; 02-03-2005 at 01:06 AM.

02-02-2005, 11:21 PM	#16
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Picture of the metal stock screws. Attached Images

02-02-2005, 11:22 PM	#17
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	more screws Attached Images

02-02-2005, 11:44 PM	#18
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This will be the last picture, it is of the flap enclosure studs. My friend took these photo's for me and was able to downsize them for me. If anyone wants more pictures, I will directly email them , only they will be in a larger file. Thanks for looking and hopefully for some tips on what to look for and what not to look for. As you can see from the photo's, I am not trying to hide anything. I must admit, the screws look pretty new, but again, I don't know what they are supposed to look like. Tracy Attached Images

02-03-2005, 12:22 AM	#19
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I gotta admit, it still fools me. To my uneducated eye I couldn't tell you if it was original or not. I wonder if we are looking at two different rigs? I don't see the double line of stitching on the ends of the stock block nor do I see a belt loop, the boot is lined, and the screws look patinated. ???? I'm glad I don't have to make the call. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-03-2005, 12:23 AM	#20
tnak User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: idaho Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I found another pic which I hadn't posted yet. It is a pic of a stamping of 1916 found on the inside portion of the endcap (closest to wood). Attached Images