30 cal Navy???

sheepherder · 12-03-2009, 09:41 PM

I was looking for a good picture of the Crown/M on the Navy's, and saw this one on GB...but it doesn't have a good Crown/M...In fact, it has only one Crown/M, which I thought was odd...It sort of looks like my commercial Crown/N...

http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/View...Item=148921515

The rear sight looked strange (to me), too...

So...Did the German Navy use 30 cal Lugers???

BTW: This seller has a 1906 Russian Contract Luger, too...which is even stranger, as it has no proof marks that I can see...

http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/View...Item=148635045

MFC · 12-04-2009, 01:13 AM

Rich
I have no idea if it is factory original or not, but it would be classified as a 30 cal. commercial Navy with the correct commercial C/N proofs. Military Navies are 9mm with military C/M acceptance/proofs.

Ron Wood · 12-04-2009, 02:17 AM

I am pretty sure that is the Russian that I saw in 2008 at the Louisville show. It has been restored as stated but from what I could tell, it appeared correct and not a fake.

sheepherder · 12-04-2009, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I am pretty sure that is the Russian that I saw in 2008 at the Louisville show. It has been restored as stated but from what I could tell, it appeared correct and not a fake.

Ron -

Would it have had proofs on the receiver that were buffed out when restored, or would it have shipped without any??? He doesn't show the barrel bottom and I don't see any on the sides either...

12-04-2009, 08:19 AM

Not sure if anyone noticed that the barrel on the Navy had "GERMANY" stamped on it on the left side. Maybe the barrel was replaced at one time?

Tomathvl · 12-04-2009, 08:20 AM

Once again looking at photos....... Side plate looks ground, toggle pin not in the white, looks refinished to me.
Tom

Ron Wood · 12-04-2009, 08:54 AM

Postino,
A 1906 Russian does not have proof marks. Although I am sure they were proof tested for quality control purposes, many early Lugers destined for foreign markets, and therefore not subject to German proof laws, do not have proof marks.

sheepherder · 12-05-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Postino,
A 1906 Russian does not have proof marks. Although I am sure they were proof tested for quality control purposes, many early Lugers destined for foreign markets, and therefore not subject to German proof laws, do not have proof marks.

Ron -

*If* this were to have a Tula Arsenal proof on the barrel, would it be an arrow in a star, or a slash in a triangle??? (Or whatever that little symbol is)...

Ron Wood · 12-06-2009, 01:16 AM

The "slash in a triangle" is actually a slash in a shield shape and is a DWM barrel inspection mark, possibly placed there during production when a barrel was "out of spec" and was corrected or replaced. It has been mistakenly identified as a Tula Arsenal proof by some (PIA to name one). A Tula Arsenal "proof" is a T in a triangle with the top of the T at the apex of the triangle rather than parallel to a side. I believe this indicates repair/rework/refurbish by the Tula Arsenal and I have seen it on at least one 1906 Russian Luger that I considered authentic.

sheepherder · 12-06-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

A Tula Arsenal "proof" is a T in a triangle with the top of the T at the apex of the triangle rather than parallel to a side.

thanks, Ron! I have seen this marking somewhere; can't recall where, possibly next to that DWM mark on a barrel...So that's their proof mark, hmmm??? I'll have to ask Lugerman if he has that stamp...

Lugerdoc · 12-07-2009, 11:04 AM

Postino, I still have a few of these NOS "Germany" marked 7.65x150mm barrels with the Navy high front sight base (for use with the Navy 2 position rear sight) in stock @$250 each + S&H. I got these years ago from an heir of the owner of Pacific Arms Corp in Ca. with a lot of other PO8 & C96 parts. TH

sheepherder · 12-08-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

The "slash in a triangle" is actually a slash in a shield shape and is a DWM barrel inspection mark, possibly placed there during production when a barrel was "out of spec" and was corrected or replaced. It has been mistakenly identified as a Tula Arsenal proof by some (PIA to name one). A Tula Arsenal "proof" is a T in a triangle with the top of the T at the apex of the triangle rather than parallel to a side. I believe this indicates repair/rework/refurbish by the Tula Arsenal and I have seen it on at least one 1906 Russian Luger that I considered authentic.

I got a response to my question to the seller as to whether it had a proof mark on the barrel...Here's his response...

Dear Sir,
The Russian pistol has one proof mark on it, This a mark like a shield with a slash diagonally across it. It can be seen in Charles Kenyon Jr's book "Lugers at Random" page 39, item 22. The safety is marked in the Bulgarian cyrillic OLbHb "FIRE". The extractor is marked in Russian "3APAb" cyrillic alphabet. This pistol is pictured very well in "Luger Tips" by Michael Reese
II, Page 39.
Best regards,

xxxx xxxxxxxxxx

12-03-2009, 09:41 PM	#1
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	30 cal Navy??? I was looking for a good picture of the Crown/M on the Navy's, and saw this one on GB...but it doesn't have a good Crown/M...In fact, it has only one Crown/M, which I thought was odd...It sort of looks like my commercial Crown/N... http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/View...Item=148921515 The rear sight looked strange (to me), too... So...Did the German Navy use 30 cal Lugers??? BTW: This seller has a 1906 Russian Contract Luger, too...which is even stranger, as it has no proof marks that I can see... http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/View...Item=148635045

12-04-2009, 01:13 AM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Rich I have no idea if it is factory original or not, but it would be classified as a 30 cal. commercial Navy with the correct commercial C/N proofs. Military Navies are 9mm with military C/M acceptance/proofs. __________________ Mike C.

12-04-2009, 02:17 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I am pretty sure that is the Russian that I saw in 2008 at the Louisville show. It has been restored as stated but from what I could tell, it appeared correct and not a fake. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-04-2009, 08:54 AM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	Postino, A 1906 Russian does not have proof marks. Although I am sure they were proof tested for quality control purposes, many early Lugers destined for foreign markets, and therefore not subject to German proof laws, do not have proof marks. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-06-2009, 01:16 AM	#9
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	The "slash in a triangle" is actually a slash in a shield shape and is a DWM barrel inspection mark, possibly placed there during production when a barrel was "out of spec" and was corrected or replaced. It has been mistakenly identified as a Tula Arsenal proof by some (PIA to name one). A Tula Arsenal "proof" is a T in a triangle with the top of the T at the apex of the triangle rather than parallel to a side. I believe this indicates repair/rework/refurbish by the Tula Arsenal and I have seen it on at least one 1906 Russian Luger that I considered authentic. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-04-2009, 08:19 AM	#5
Brad Guest Posts: n/a	Not sure if anyone noticed that the barrel on the Navy had "GERMANY" stamped on it on the left side. Maybe the barrel was replaced at one time?

12-04-2009, 08:20 AM	#6
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Once again looking at photos....... Side plate looks ground, toggle pin not in the white, looks refinished to me. Tom

12-07-2009, 11:04 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Postino, I still have a few of these NOS "Germany" marked 7.65x150mm barrels with the Navy high front sight base (for use with the Navy 2 position rear sight) in stock @$250 each + S&H. I got these years ago from an heir of the owner of Pacific Arms Corp in Ca. with a lot of other PO8 & C96 parts. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net