Proof mark?

schoolbd · 05-05-2020, 08:20 PM

What is this Proof
Thank You

lugerholsterrepair · 05-05-2020, 09:47 PM

The Eagle 6 is a Simson proof. I don't know what might be stamped to either side of the 6?

schoolbd · 05-05-2020, 10:08 PM

Thank you Jerry , any idea what time period it was used?
Thanks

lugerholsterrepair · 05-05-2020, 11:37 PM

Simson was dating pistols in 1926. It's the only date they used I think? Somewhere in that time frame.

Ed Tinker is the Simson expert..he might know what the whole thing is.

DonVoigt · 05-06-2020, 12:03 AM

Please post more pictures of your pistol and all markings.
Looking at one mark out of context can be misleading.

That is an Eagle/33, one of the Simson inspector markings; though it does look like a
"6" slipped in between the "threes" somehow.

It is an inspection or acceptance marking not a "proof".

Simson made parts and pistols and repaired pistols(lugers) throughout the 1920s and into the 1930s; New production was dated only in 1925 and 1926(few in '25 and even fewer in '26).
Most Simson production was not dated on the chamber at all.

Many Simson made barrels were sold to and used by the police in rebarreling their pistols, the barrels themselves will have the last digit of the date on the bottom;
a 3,4,5, perhaps a for the corresponding year 1923-6. Maybe a couple others but all the barrels seem to have been made or marked at least in the early '20s.

Sergio Natali · 05-06-2020, 05:49 AM

Would be interesting if you could post some more close-ups of your Simson.
Simson Lugers are not seen that often.

schoolbd · 05-06-2020, 08:36 AM

Posted this one on another forum , thought I would share here for a little more info on assembly (where and when, etc) included more photos. It’s marked very similar to a 1940 byf pg. 261 The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946
Thanks for your time

mrerick · 05-06-2020, 10:24 AM

Your second Luger is rebuilt with parts from a number of different Lugers and arsenal rebuild replacement parts.

The "byf" prefix didn't start being used until 1941 (the Mauser concealment code was "42" until 1941 - so all 1940 made Mauser Lugers will have "42" on the toggle).

The side plate is an arsenal replacement part shipped from Mauser as a spare part.

The "byf" toggle is marked in a non-standard way. It's original serial number marking at the rear was removed.

I don't recognize the form of the eagle stamps on the barrel. I'm not sure that the replacement barrel was done by an arsenal or field replacement workshop.

schoolbd · 05-06-2020, 10:45 AM

Same Luger with the Simson mark on the barrel, eagle markings on barrel appear to be eagle n as well as the one on the frame and toggle

DonVoigt · 05-06-2020, 11:15 AM

The barrel was originally made by Simson- likely in 1923 from the "3" seen on the barrel.
It was added to the 1940 luger by a third party and proofed as a "repaired" pistol as indicated by the
added 9mm, E/N, and E/J .

The E/N is a proof mark, and the E/J indicates repaired (in this case likely the barrel replacement and perhaps other small parts).

Repair is also noted by the non-standard numbering on the replacement(42 code) side plate, and rear toggle. The HZa marked extractor is also a replacement.

Dwight Gruber · 05-06-2020, 11:19 AM

Note, the e/N and e/J stamps are civilian, not military.

--Dwight

schoolbd · 05-06-2020, 11:22 AM

Any ideas of who may have assembled it?

schoolbd · 05-06-2020, 11:24 AM

Yes e/n commercial proofs

Doubs · 05-06-2020, 11:47 AM

The E/N & E/J are IAW the 1939 proof laws and, as noted, are civilian/commercial proofs.

The picture below shows the barrel proofs on a pistol rebuilt by Frankenschloss during the same time frame.

cirelaw · 05-06-2020, 01:20 PM

Proof Marks ID http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/GLP.php

Doubs · 05-06-2020, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

Proof Marks ID http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/GLP.php

Thank you for the link. While it has a lot of good information, some of it isn't accurate. For instance, the Eagle/N proof is said to be a Mauser commercial proof mark. It's not exclusively Mauser but a commercial proof used on guns from all manufacturers where appropriate.

cirelaw · 05-06-2020, 02:51 PM

At least it a start. Ralph sent me his red and gold cover. 'Proof Marks" Its too big!

Doubs · 05-06-2020, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

At least it a start. Ralph sent me his red and gold cover. 'Proof Marks" Its too big!

I have the same Costanza book. It's autographed. It's surely a chore to wade through all the listed proof marks to find a particular one. When I used it as a reference once, I was told it was outdated and in error. Even so, it's still a useful reference.

cirelaw · 05-06-2020, 04:47 PM

It has a pretty cover but I agree! 430 pages I went cross eyed!

Edward Tinker · 05-06-2020, 05:44 PM

E33 - but it does look double stamped or the like

05-05-2020, 08:20 PM	#1
schoolbd User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 23 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Proof mark? What is this Proof Thank You Attached Thumbnails

05-05-2020, 09:47 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	The Eagle 6 is a Simson proof. I don't know what might be stamped to either side of the 6? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-05-2020, 11:37 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	Simson was dating pistols in 1926. It's the only date they used I think? Somewhere in that time frame. Ed Tinker is the Simson expert..he might know what the whole thing is. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-06-2020, 12:03 AM	#5
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	Please post more pictures of your pistol and all markings. Looking at one mark out of context can be misleading. That is an Eagle/33, one of the Simson inspector markings; though it does look like a "6" slipped in between the "threes" somehow. It is an inspection or acceptance marking not a "proof". Simson made parts and pistols and repaired pistols(lugers) throughout the 1920s and into the 1930s; New production was dated only in 1925 and 1926(few in '25 and even fewer in '26). Most Simson production was not dated on the chamber at all. Many Simson made barrels were sold to and used by the police in rebarreling their pistols, the barrels themselves will have the last digit of the date on the bottom; a 3,4,5, perhaps a for the corresponding year 1923-6. Maybe a couple others but all the barrels seem to have been made or marked at least in the early '20s. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-06-2020, 05:49 AM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Would be interesting if you could post some more close-ups of your Simson. Simson Lugers are not seen that often. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

05-05-2020, 10:08 PM	#3
schoolbd User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 23 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Thank you Jerry , any idea what time period it was used? Thanks

05-06-2020, 08:36 AM	#7
schoolbd User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 23 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Posted this one on another forum , thought I would share here for a little more info on assembly (where and when, etc) included more photos. It’s marked very similar to a 1940 byf pg. 261 The Mauser Parabellum 1930-1946 Thanks for your time Attached Thumbnails

05-06-2020, 10:24 AM	#8
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,909 Thanks: 1,374 Thanked 3,110 Times in 1,510 Posts	Your second Luger is rebuilt with parts from a number of different Lugers and arsenal rebuild replacement parts. The "byf" prefix didn't start being used until 1941 (the Mauser concealment code was "42" until 1941 - so all 1940 made Mauser Lugers will have "42" on the toggle). The side plate is an arsenal replacement part shipped from Mauser as a spare part. The "byf" toggle is marked in a non-standard way. It's original serial number marking at the rear was removed. I don't recognize the form of the eagle stamps on the barrel. I'm not sure that the replacement barrel was done by an arsenal or field replacement workshop. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

05-06-2020, 10:45 AM	#9
schoolbd User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 23 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Same Luger with the Simson mark on the barrel, eagle markings on barrel appear to be eagle n as well as the one on the frame and toggle

05-06-2020, 11:15 AM	#10
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,441 Thanked 4,350 Times in 2,040 Posts	The barrel was originally made by Simson- likely in 1923 from the "3" seen on the barrel. It was added to the 1940 luger by a third party and proofed as a "repaired" pistol as indicated by the added 9mm, E/N, and E/J . The E/N is a proof mark, and the E/J indicates repaired (in this case likely the barrel replacement and perhaps other small parts). Repair is also noted by the non-standard numbering on the replacement(42 code) side plate, and rear toggle. The HZa marked extractor is also a replacement. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

05-06-2020, 11:19 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,902 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,317 Times in 431 Posts	Note, the e/N and e/J stamps are civilian, not military. --Dwight

05-06-2020, 11:22 AM	#12
schoolbd User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 23 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Any ideas of who may have assembled it? Last edited by schoolbd; 05-06-2020 at 11:23 AM. Reason: Punctuation

05-06-2020, 11:24 AM	#13
schoolbd User Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 23 Thanks: 5 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Yes e/n commercial proofs

05-06-2020, 11:47 AM	#14
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,698 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,685 Times in 554 Posts	The E/N & E/J are IAW the 1939 proof laws and, as noted, are civilian/commercial proofs. The picture below shows the barrel proofs on a pistol rebuilt by Frankenschloss during the same time frame.

05-06-2020, 01:20 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Proof Marks ID http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/GLP.php Attached Images

05-06-2020, 02:51 PM	#17
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	At least it a start. Ralph sent me his red and gold cover. 'Proof Marks" Its too big! Attached Images

05-06-2020, 04:47 PM	#19
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	It has a pretty cover but I agree! 430 pages I went cross eyed!

05-06-2020, 05:44 PM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	E33 - but it does look double stamped or the like __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV