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Unread 08-21-2014, 09:28 AM   #1
aldo35
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Default Navy Marked Luger on GB Auctions

There is a Navy marked luger on GB for $1099. Serial # is 15400 and the last 0 looks forced on rear toggle and middle toggle. What are your thoughts.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 10:00 AM   #2
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Aldo, please provide a link to the GB page where this gun is displayed.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 10:11 AM   #3
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This thing?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=436394634
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Unread 08-21-2014, 11:53 AM   #4
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This is a refinished mixed parts non-matching gun with a 6 inch barrel. NOT a Navy Luger. The barrel isn't even a Navy barrel, just a 6 inch barrel. So don't waste your money thinking that this is a Navy anything...

The magazine is East German VOPO manufacture of the FXO type. This is indicated by the 2/1001 number on the side of the magazine tube.

This gun is worth LESS than $900 as a shooter IMHO.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 12:12 PM   #5
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I can't find the one that Joseph (aldo35) asked about...I don't think the one in Jerry's link is it. We need a link or something to narrow down the search.
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If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction
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Unread 08-21-2014, 12:35 PM   #6
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I know I should know this, What does 'altered' mean?? Eric
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:12 PM   #7
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Default How do I post a link/

Not sure how to post a link It is probably somewhere here and I will look for it.

The one link already posted is not the pistol in question.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirelaw View Post
I know I should know this, What does 'altered' mean?? Eric
The First Issue Navy Lugers were manufactured to be "on safe" with the thumb safety in the up position. Since it was possible to knock it "off safe" while holstering, the safety was "altered" to be on safe in the down position. The lower safety marking was obliterated and a new "Gesichert" was stamped in the upper position so that it would be visible when the safety was on, in the new down position.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:22 PM   #9
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Joseph,
If you can't figure out how to post a link, provide the Auction # of the item and we can search on that.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:23 PM   #10
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Default GunBroker Auction 436253647

Hi,

I couldn't find the answer in FAQ on posting a link so I tried copying holsterrepairs link

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction view....436253647

Hope this works.

Aldo
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:26 PM   #11
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That didn't work but this will:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=436253647

It is a Frankenluger. Probably a legitimate 1916 Navy receiver with added and renumbered parts. The perpetrator even added a Krieghoff proof on the barrel.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:26 PM   #12
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http//www.gunbroker.com/auction/view...item=436253647
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:32 PM   #13
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Joseph,
You have to copy the URL from the web site, you can't just edit Jerry's post...the link won't be embedded.

Eric,
That is the same one Jerry posted and it isn't the right one.

Click on the link I provided...it works.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:33 PM   #14
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Hi Aldo, Gunbroker lot # 436253647 is the one you are asking about. The receiver is from a 1916 Navy, the rest of the gun is not.
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Unread 08-21-2014, 01:39 PM   #15
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And those twin "zeros" on the rear toggle link were done as some class project at the local Kindergarten.......
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Unread 08-21-2014, 02:10 PM   #16
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Okay, now that we have a different Luger to look at. Here are my observations on THIS pistol.

As Ron has mentioned, the upper receiver appears to be a legitimate Navy Receiver from 1916. The barrel appears to be a Krieghoff manufactured replacement, and yet it is numbered to the upper receiver.

I don't have any references available to me at the moment, but I don't think military (Navy) receivers had 5 digit serial numbers... somebody correct me if I am guessing wrong on this fact. I have been known to be wrong in the past on at least some things, just ask my wife!

The right hand ZERO on the back of the rear toggle appears to have been added or overstamped on the original number (possibly an "8" or a "3" and is irregular in shape. If it were the original number stamping on this toggle, it would have been made with the same stamp that was used on the left hand ZERO, but is definitley a different size from that one. (Forced Matching and poorly done...Thanks Doug).

From what can be seen in the provided photographs, there is no serial number present on the lower frame above the trigger guard. This is a red flag for me. It is difficult to tell if it is parrallax distortion in the side photo, but it APPEARS that the front of the frame has been ground down or shaved so that no number appears there.

Since the barrel was replaced, I believe that the front of the upper receiver was shaved to match the new dimension of the lower so that it does not protrude from the lower frame when assembled, which would be a giveaway that the gun has been boosted.

It is possible that the number on the left side of the upper receiver may have been enhanced by the addition of the leading number "1" and the trailing "0" so that the original number may have been 540 instead of 15400.

No one has yet mentioned that this gun has been modified with a police safety installed over the sideplate...

While it is certainly possible that all the above modifications were made when a WW1 Navy gun was rebuilt into a gun for issue and service with a German police agency, I don't have much confidence in that theory. I think the gun is the product of Waffenfabrik USA to be sold as something that it is not.

Just my $0.02
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Unread 08-21-2014, 02:12 PM   #17
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Brilliant Work you both!
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Unread 08-21-2014, 02:21 PM   #18
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Aldo,

To provide a link or URL in your posts, you put a browser on the page you want to link, and copy the complete URL from the address bar on the browser and paste it into your post for the Lugerforum. For example the URL for this discussion page is:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...201#post259201
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Unread 08-21-2014, 02:26 PM   #19
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Hi John, 1916 Imperial Navies were numbered 1 to 8000, but the receivers had no external numbers. They were numbered with only the last two digits on the recoil lug (see photo).
Regards, Norm
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Unread 08-21-2014, 02:29 PM   #20
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Looks like my wife is right again! I hate it when that happens!

So what about the lower receiver/frame serial numbers Norme?
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