Luger Security

Bob Egan · 07-23-2001, 10:28 PM

Just got back from 3 weeks in the mountains and saw the discussion regarding percent of finish on pistols.I have a DWM 1920 commercial which was given to me by a friend.It has a large hole rusted thru the grip backstrap, and a few pits scattered around the rest of the gun.When he got it it was 100% new,and he asked his father to safeguard his gun collection while he was away on vacation, and turned this and other new condition Lugers and Colt Frontiers over to the old man who was so concerned for their security that he coated them with axel grease, jackhammered a hole in the basement floor, put them in, and covered them with concrete. It was necessary to rent a jack hammer to retrieve them, and the axel grease did a wonderful job of trapping every drop of moisture on the gun. So, excet for a few pits and a large hole, this gun has about 85% finish.I cant even give it away!I recently gave it to a friend who gave it back!

07-23-2001, 11:02 PM

Uhhmmmmm.....

I'll take it, and give it a good home

07-23-2001, 11:36 PM

Jesse · 07-24-2001, 12:10 AM

Hey..... If you give it to me I promise I won't give it back

BILL · 07-24-2001, 12:34 AM

Dok · 07-24-2001, 07:35 AM

I'm sure Ted Green could fix it! And make it a thing of beauty once more... then you wouldn't want to part with it.

Thor · 07-24-2001, 08:18 AM

I can't do the hole! I have one like that that I am waiting to send to somebody like Morgan or Martz that can tig weld the hole shut! Maybe Tom N can start I service, I think I remember he does this stuff! Thor

Mark McMorrow · 07-24-2001, 08:37 AM

Reminds me of the time, about 20 years ago, when I responded to a classified ad in the newspaper for "Long Barrel Luger - Just Cleaned!". I immediately called the guy up and made an appointment to meet him. When I arrived, I discovered what he meant by "just cleaned". According to the owner (who had no interest in the Luger itself other than to make enough money off of it to buy Super Bowl tickets) the once beautiful artillery model had "a lot of dark black tarnish on it", so he SANDED it off as much as he could!!! Yep, sanded - as in with sandpaper. Sanded the grips too while he was at it. I think it was the closest I've ever come to strangling someone.

John Sabato · 07-24-2001, 10:15 AM

He should be able to recover that poor Luger to shooter status, and Ted, you could make it pretty again!

What have you got to lose...???

Sorry about your friend's misfortune, but If you decide against this course of action, I like the others promise not to send it (or any of the others that spent time in that concrete prison) back if you send it (them)to me

-John

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 07-24-2001, 04:54 PM

I have weld away numerous of stocklugs and lanyardrings slots etc.

It's fairly simple.

Get a welding vire that fits the luger steel well, some kind of carbon vire, absolutetly not any modern tool steel vire.

Preheat the frame to 200 celcius.

Weld it in small portions, let it cool down in the furnace between each welding till the 200 celcius.

Betwen each weldign clean all surfaces very carefully and don't forget to have totally clean and degreased weldingrod.

When finnished with the welding let the frame cool down to normal temperature in the furnace so the temperature goes down as slow as possible.

After the gun has been welded its likely that the weld still is harder than the rest of the gun and one way of getting that hardness down is to heat it with a torch at the place of the welding. THis avoids strange colorations.

DON'T temper it higher than 200 Celcius in the furnace as the hardening on the camcurve then will be lost.

My .02 cents......

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

ps. I have this way welded at nearly 100 cracked SIG P210 frames.

http://www.vapensmedjan.com

Thor · 07-24-2001, 08:27 PM

John, I dont know if Hugh is ready to do this work yet, I know he silvers soldiers a lot of frames, but dont know if the welding is ready yet! He has so many irons in the fire you know! The fact that he is so terrific with grips and barrels probably leaves him little time for new and interesting other stuff. I certainly will await news from him, I hope he can and does do the work! Thor

Hugh · 07-24-2001, 09:06 PM

I might be able to tackle this job after I practice on Ted's Baby this week!

Thor · 07-24-2001, 10:14 PM

OUCH!!! My poor BABY!!!!!

Big Norm · 07-24-2001, 11:25 PM

I read a book called GUN COLLECTORS DIGEST 4th Edition (pg 122 thru 133) by Joseph J. Schroeder that shows a difficult restoration with plenty of pictures. I talked to the guy who did the restoration and he ain't cheap and there is a long waiting list. Unless the gun is a true collectors piece, don't bother. But the article is interesting. The book also has a good article on photography. I bought my book for $13.

Big Norm

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 07-25-2001, 12:15 AM

Here is a pic how it coult look.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

http://www.vapensmedjan.com
http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Backstrapssmall.jpg

Thor · 07-25-2001, 03:25 AM

1300 Grams of Rust by Gale Morgan was an interesting Article! This man is a wizard!!! John Sabato mentioned this some months back and I had to get it! The Broom Handle Mauser certainly was destined for the trash can or scrap heap and Mr Morgan turned it into a beautiful weapon! He has no peer except maybe John Martz! Martz and Morgen! Two true craftsman!! ~Thor~

BILL · 07-25-2001, 10:03 AM

Where is the article or book that is being referenced by Morgan? I have never seen it or known that he has written anything. It would be interesting.

Big Norm · 07-25-2001, 11:33 AM

John Martz is not only a true craftsman, he is a true gentleman. I called him a few years back when I was a true newbie and he talked to me for three quarters of an hour and NEVER once tried to give me a brush off. Here he is, a true well known craftsman, and I was a nobody and he talked to me like I knew what I was talking about. He even responded to a letter that I wrote. I talked to some restorers that John was talking to and they indicated that John is fussy about who he farms out his work to. No cheapy work for him. He was the one who turned me on to Don Hallock and Don's available list of available luger magazines. John even invited me out to his property in California to do a little shooting. John is a class act. Someday, I would like to see one of his guns. There is a nice article about him in LUGER TIPS by Michael Reese II (about $10).

As for Don Hallock, He has a list of luger magazines for people who are trying to match their lugers with the original magazines. This list costs $10 each and comes out about once a year. Don also has a book of previously published magazine numbers that he sells. I think that this book cost $40. Don's e-mail address is EAGLE@MICRO-OPTIONS.COM. I have never tried his e-mail.

Somebody asked where they could get Schroeder's book GUN COLLECTOR'S DIGEST. Joseph is at the Ohio Gun Collectors Association (OGCA) frequently and often has a table there. I bought my book from him there. At the time, he had a stack of them. The publisher is DBI BOOKS, inc. 4092 Commercial Ave., Northbrook, Il. 60062. Maybe GUNLIST magazine has someone selling it. Try GUNLIST first.

Big Norm

John Sabato · 07-25-2001, 01:17 PM

Hey BIG NORM,

I never had the pleasure of meeting the man, or seeing one of his masterpieces in person, but I have followed his work since I saw the first article about his Luger modifications back in the 70's...

Here is a photo of him with one of his beautiful Luger carbine creations.

This photo came from the latest Luger e-book "Luger Models" and accompanies a lengthy article on John with many photos of his work.

I recommend this book to anyone who has heard of John's Martz's amazing work.

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/JohnMartz.jpg

BILL · 07-25-2001, 02:05 PM

Norm, what is the URL for the ebook that has the article on John Martz? Also, you referenced a book that you purchased at a gun show. Gun Collector's Digest. Is this the book with the article by Gail Morgan? I would like to read about both Martz and Morgan.

07-23-2001, 10:28 PM	#1
Bob Egan User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Luger Security Just got back from 3 weeks in the mountains and saw the discussion regarding percent of finish on pistols.I have a DWM 1920 commercial which was given to me by a friend.It has a large hole rusted thru the grip backstrap, and a few pits scattered around the rest of the gun.When he got it it was 100% new,and he asked his father to safeguard his gun collection while he was away on vacation, and turned this and other new condition Lugers and Colt Frontiers over to the old man who was so concerned for their security that he coated them with axel grease, jackhammered a hole in the basement floor, put them in, and covered them with concrete. It was necessary to rent a jack hammer to retrieve them, and the axel grease did a wonderful job of trapping every drop of moisture on the gun. So, excet for a few pits and a large hole, this gun has about 85% finish.I cant even give it away!I recently gave it to a friend who gave it back!

07-23-2001, 11:02 PM	#2
Hannah Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Luger Security Uhhmmmmm..... I'll take it, and give it a good home

07-23-2001, 11:36 PM	#3
FGR Guest Posts: n/a	ouch..... (EOM)

07-24-2001, 12:10 AM	#4
Jesse User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW VA Posts: 103 Thanks: 6 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Luger Security Hey..... If you give it to me I promise I won't give it back

07-24-2001, 12:34 AM	#5
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	There is nothing that can't be 'fixed'! (EOM)

07-24-2001, 07:35 AM	#6
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Luger Security I'm sure Ted Green could fix it! And make it a thing of beauty once more... then you wouldn't want to part with it.

07-24-2001, 08:18 AM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Luger Security-NOT ME! I can't do the hole! I have one like that that I am waiting to send to somebody like Morgan or Martz that can tig weld the hole shut! Maybe Tom N can start I service, I think I remember he does this stuff! Thor

07-24-2001, 08:37 AM	#8
Mark McMorrow User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NE USA Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Luger Security Reminds me of the time, about 20 years ago, when I responded to a classified ad in the newspaper for "Long Barrel Luger - Just Cleaned!". I immediately called the guy up and made an appointment to meet him. When I arrived, I discovered what he meant by "just cleaned". According to the owner (who had no interest in the Luger itself other than to make enough money off of it to buy Super Bowl tickets) the once beautiful artillery model had "a lot of dark black tarnish on it", so he SANDED it off as much as he could!!! Yep, sanded - as in with sandpaper. Sanded the grips too while he was at it. I think it was the closest I've ever come to strangling someone.

07-24-2001, 10:15 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Bob, Since Hugh Clark welds frames to make Luger Babies... He should be able to recover that poor Luger to shooter status, and Ted, you could make it pretty again! What have you got to lose...??? Sorry about your friend's misfortune, but If you decide against this course of action, I like the others promise not to send it (or any of the others that spent time in that concrete prison) back if you send it (them)to me -John

07-24-2001, 04:54 PM	#10
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Luger Security I have weld away numerous of stocklugs and lanyardrings slots etc. It's fairly simple. Get a welding vire that fits the luger steel well, some kind of carbon vire, absolutetly not any modern tool steel vire. Preheat the frame to 200 celcius. Weld it in small portions, let it cool down in the furnace between each welding till the 200 celcius. Betwen each weldign clean all surfaces very carefully and don't forget to have totally clean and degreased weldingrod. When finnished with the welding let the frame cool down to normal temperature in the furnace so the temperature goes down as slow as possible. After the gun has been welded its likely that the weld still is harder than the rest of the gun and one way of getting that hardness down is to heat it with a torch at the place of the welding. THis avoids strange colorations. DON'T temper it higher than 200 Celcius in the furnace as the hardening on the camcurve then will be lost. My .02 cents...... Regards HÃ?Â¥kan ps. I have this way welded at nearly 100 cracked SIG P210 frames. http://www.vapensmedjan.com

07-24-2001, 08:27 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Bob, Since Hugh Clark welds frames to make Luger Babies... John, I dont know if Hugh is ready to do this work yet, I know he silvers soldiers a lot of frames, but dont know if the welding is ready yet! He has so many irons in the fire you know! The fact that he is so terrific with grips and barrels probably leaves him little time for new and interesting other stuff. I certainly will await news from him, I hope he can and does do the work! Thor

07-24-2001, 09:06 PM	#12
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Welding frames I might be able to tackle this job after I practice on Ted's Baby this week!

07-24-2001, 10:14 PM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Welding frames-OUCH!! OUCH!!! My poor BABY!!!!!

07-24-2001, 11:25 PM	#14
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Book Showing Restoration I read a book called GUN COLLECTORS DIGEST 4th Edition (pg 122 thru 133) by Joseph J. Schroeder that shows a difficult restoration with plenty of pictures. I talked to the guy who did the restoration and he ain't cheap and there is a long waiting list. Unless the gun is a true collectors piece, don't bother. But the article is interesting. The book also has a good article on photography. I bought my book for $13. Big Norm

07-25-2001, 12:15 AM	#15
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How it could look Here is a pic how it coult look. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan http://www.vapensmedjan.com http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/Backstrapssmall.jpg

07-25-2001, 03:25 AM	#16
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Book Showing Restoration 1300 Grams of Rust by Gale Morgan was an interesting Article! This man is a wizard!!! John Sabato mentioned this some months back and I had to get it! The Broom Handle Mauser certainly was destined for the trash can or scrap heap and Mr Morgan turned it into a beautiful weapon! He has no peer except maybe John Martz! Martz and Morgen! Two true craftsman!! ~Thor~

07-25-2001, 10:03 AM	#17
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Book Showing Restoration Where is the article or book that is being referenced by Morgan? I have never seen it or known that he has written anything. It would be interesting.

07-25-2001, 11:33 AM	#18
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Book Showing Restoration John Martz is not only a true craftsman, he is a true gentleman. I called him a few years back when I was a true newbie and he talked to me for three quarters of an hour and NEVER once tried to give me a brush off. Here he is, a true well known craftsman, and I was a nobody and he talked to me like I knew what I was talking about. He even responded to a letter that I wrote. I talked to some restorers that John was talking to and they indicated that John is fussy about who he farms out his work to. No cheapy work for him. He was the one who turned me on to Don Hallock and Don's available list of available luger magazines. John even invited me out to his property in California to do a little shooting. John is a class act. Someday, I would like to see one of his guns. There is a nice article about him in LUGER TIPS by Michael Reese II (about $10). As for Don Hallock, He has a list of luger magazines for people who are trying to match their lugers with the original magazines. This list costs $10 each and comes out about once a year. Don also has a book of previously published magazine numbers that he sells. I think that this book cost $40. Don's e-mail address is EAGLE@MICRO-OPTIONS.COM. I have never tried his e-mail. Somebody asked where they could get Schroeder's book GUN COLLECTOR'S DIGEST. Joseph is at the Ohio Gun Collectors Association (OGCA) frequently and often has a table there. I bought my book from him there. At the time, he had a stack of them. The publisher is DBI BOOKS, inc. 4092 Commercial Ave., Northbrook, Il. 60062. Maybe GUNLIST magazine has someone selling it. Try GUNLIST first. Big Norm

07-25-2001, 01:17 PM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	about John Martz... Hey BIG NORM, I never had the pleasure of meeting the man, or seeing one of his masterpieces in person, but I have followed his work since I saw the first article about his Luger modifications back in the 70's... Here is a photo of him with one of his beautiful Luger carbine creations. This photo came from the latest Luger e-book "Luger Models" and accompanies a lengthy article on John with many photos of his work. I recommend this book to anyone who has heard of John's Martz's amazing work. http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/JohnMartz.jpg

07-25-2001, 02:05 PM	#20
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Book Showing Restoration Norm, what is the URL for the ebook that has the article on John Martz? Also, you referenced a book that you purchased at a gun show. Gun Collector's Digest. Is this the book with the article by Gail Morgan? I would like to read about both Martz and Morgan.