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Unread 10-20-2016, 08:23 PM   #1
DonVoigt
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Smile T.M. P Kasten : Trommel Magazine Ammunition box

A new to me "P Kasten", which is the box designed to hold 5 trommel magazines, a loader, and some 24 sixteen round boxes for the L. P 08 ; the "Artillery Luger".

This one must have quite a history, as we often say "if it could only talk".

Probably made about 1917 when the TM or "snail drum" was beginning to be used by the Germans. Perhaps it also served the Weimar police as a magazine for the Erma sub-machine gun.

Some how it survived two world wars, and years of use -probably as a tool box, until it was "found" in Poland by a forum member and imported to the US. When imported the "guts" had been stripped out and it was just an empty box as seen below. The interior was restored to the condition you see, using an original box as a pattern.

I have since added a couple TM's, loader, and reproduction WWI ammo boxes.

I have another TM, but as you can see- need two more to fill it up!
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Unread 10-20-2016, 08:36 PM   #2
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Don, very nice set up as it appears you restored it right. Curt
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Unread 10-20-2016, 11:45 PM   #3
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The ultimate accessory!!

G2
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Unread 10-21-2016, 10:56 AM   #4
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Don, what variations are your Trommels?
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Unread 10-21-2016, 11:01 AM   #5
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Curt,
the two in the P Kasten are Numrich reproduction mags, I have a 2 nd model Bing in the safe.
I'd like to find/buy a first model at a decent price for the box, and may go with another repro to "fill it up". Not sure I want to invest in 5 originals!
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Unread 10-21-2016, 07:46 PM   #6
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Nice box Don , I realy enjoy it , owning three myself
/
Have a look to the pdf in my signature for pics
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Unread 10-21-2016, 07:58 PM   #7
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Perfect!!! Where did you find the repo ammo blue boxes?? I searched for years!!
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Unread 10-21-2016, 08:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbaker View Post
Don, very nice set up as it appears you restored it right. Curt
Curt,
I can't take credit for the inside dividers, they were done by
Kris Antczak who is a talented wood worker.

Keoki was kind enough to supply the "master" patterns by furnishing one of his original boxes for a pattern.
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Unread 10-21-2016, 08:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirelaw View Post
Perfect!!! Where did you find the repo ammo blue boxes?? I searched for years!!
Erick,
I copied the labels and used rubber cement to affix to WWII and repro boxes.

They are ok, but I want to do more of a higher quality when I can buy/borrow a good box of WWI ammo.
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Unread 10-21-2016, 08:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LU1900 View Post
Nice box Don , I realy enjoy it , owning three myself
/
Have a look to the pdf in my signature for pics
Patrice,
thanks. I have looked at your pdf- it convinced me that I really did want to own a P Kasten! Nice boxes and great presentation.
Thanks for sharing yours, they are an inspiration to spend $$!
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Unread 10-21-2016, 09:31 PM   #11
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This is really nice project - and reminded me that I happened to see this on my computer today
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Unread 10-21-2016, 09:37 PM   #12
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Yes, I believe those are the P Kasten of member Patrice in France.
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Unread 10-21-2016, 11:36 PM   #13
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Thank you Patrice.
Your pdf solved a mystery for me.
I have searched for which country the two men in uniform in Picture 31 are from. The picture indicates Sept. 1938 in Czechoslovakia.

I was doing research on the Condor Division in the Spanish Civil War. I could not identify the uniforms on the men in Picture 31. I did not find any information on Czech military uniforms. Thanks again for helping solve this issue.

Last edited by Dick Herman; 10-22-2016 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Added Condor Division
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Unread 10-22-2016, 10:21 AM   #14
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Default 2 ww1 ammo

Sorry, they are both faded~ Picture from Jans' Imperial~
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Unread 10-22-2016, 10:40 AM   #15
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Don, I was surprised to see in your first post that the box lid had a single 'door hinge' on it rather than a full-width piano hinge. Do you believe the 'door hinge' is original???
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Unread 10-22-2016, 11:24 AM   #16
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Richard, if I am not mistaken there were several manufacturers of these very rare boxes; some subtles differences you may have seen on other boxes ?
Don, congratulations on this wonderful accessory !
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Unread 10-22-2016, 11:26 AM   #17
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Do you believe the 'door hinge' is original??? No doubt about it. ALL original P-Kasten I know of were made this way. Strange that the Germans would use only the one hinge but that's the way they were made.
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Unread 10-22-2016, 11:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepherder View Post
Don, I was surprised to see in your first post that the box lid had a single 'door hinge' on it rather than a full-width piano hinge. Do you believe the 'door hinge' is original???
All I have seen or had have a single hinge.
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Unread 10-22-2016, 02:28 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Don, I was surprised to see in your first post that the box lid had a single 'door hinge' on it rather than a full-width piano hinge. Do you believe the 'door hinge' is original???
No signs it ever had anything else on it; other pictures seem the same.

Take a look at Patrice's site.
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Unread 10-22-2016, 02:55 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVoigt View Post
No signs it ever had anything else on it; other pictures seem the same.

Take a look at Patrice's site.
I did. I noticed the 1938 pic with the soldiers holding Bergman SMG's and trommel magazines, which is interesting. I've read that 'rear echelon' troops were issued the Bergman's in WW II, so it would follow they would have the trommel magazine chests as well.

But in my own limited experience, we carried handguns and magazines in a steel box about the same size as the trommel chest (for bulk transport) and if we had it open and needed to move it quickly, we'd grab the lid and carry it along to wherever we needed it. It had the full-width piano hinge. No one would bother to close it and latch it and use the carry handle - No, we'd just grab it and run it over to the firing position.

The wooden trommel chest with the single center hinge wouldn't last too long with that kind of abuse, I think...
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