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Unread 11-06-2015, 07:39 AM   #1
DavidJayUden
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Default Interesting Artillery on GA.com

Have a look at this one, and I'll be interested in hearing from the experts.
I'm not trying to pick on Mr. Luger. But my initial concerns are that it is a 1917 Erfurt artillery(?), a very thin and questionable set of leather, and I can't see if it is relieved for the rear sight. Your thoughts?


https://www.gunsamerica.com//9210460...AZINE.htm?wl=1
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Unread 11-06-2015, 08:54 AM   #2
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Poorly reproduced holster and mag pouch---not original... sorry-- the seller doesn't know what he is talking about. The magazine is questionable as to the numbering. The pistol has been reblued. $1100 tops... not $3500.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 09:03 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidJayUden View Post
and I can't see if it is relieved for the rear sight.
I can't tell either [pic attached] but they are fine-tune sights F&R...

Also, the page in Jones is for a 1914 Erfurt artillery. I don't think you can use a 1914 anything to verify a 1917...

Nice big pics, BTW...2928 x 1707...He ain't hidin' nuthin'...

Jones had a comment on Erfurts being poorly finished...and looking at this toggle, he wasn't foolin'...

(I actually have trouble believing the toggle is machined, looks filed to me)...
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Unread 11-06-2015, 09:15 AM   #4
George Anderson
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The leather is all fake as is the magazine. The pistol is a mixed parts gun; 1917 DWM receiver with Erfurt toggle train. Erfurt made LP08s in 1914 ONLY.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 09:49 AM   #5
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I suppose it could have started as a "normal" 1917 Erfurt, and grew the barrel at a later date. Erfurt proofs on the receiver, but DWM on the bbl/rear sight base. Strange that the all important picture of the bottom of the barrel markings is missing. Condition of the rear sight leaf does not go with the rest of the piece. Someone either re-numbered or got lucky in finding the rear sight base with a "26" though.

Holster looks just like my indian reproduction, just aged a little, the "square" shape to the mag pouch is identical, and the square top strap is carefully tucked under. The straps also have the metal plate attached, and as someone said are quite thin.

He likely told the truth that this was the first 1917 Erfurt he had seen!
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Unread 11-06-2015, 10:44 AM   #6
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Thank you all. You have confirmed my suspicions.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 02:00 PM   #7
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A 1917 Erfurt toggle stamp would have the broken crown lobe by then, wouldn't it? The stamp looks amazingly crisp compared to overall toggle condition and the small cross on the top of the crown migrating into the radius cut on the edge of the link all look either bogus or "freshened" to me.
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Unread 11-06-2015, 02:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanint View Post
A 1917 Erfurt toggle stamp would have the broken crown lobe by then, wouldn't it? The stamp looks amazingly crisp compared to overall toggle condition and the small cross on the top of the crown migrating into the radius cut on the edge of the link all look either bogus or "freshened" to me.
Is it a fact that Erfurt only had one toggle crown stamp?
I would have thought for their volume of production they would have multiple stamping stations.

I guess another way to ask is: do all late Erfurt examples have a broken crown?

That said the stamp is quite heavy and clear, maybe a replacement for the broken crown?
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Unread 11-06-2015, 03:13 PM   #9
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This is an early ERFURT toggle because the crown is complete. It is my belief that they never replaced the stamp after it broke... and all late toggles have the broken edge on the top right of the crown. If you have information which disproves my hypothesis, please post it.
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Unread 11-07-2015, 08:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Sabato View Post
This is an early ERFURT toggle because the crown is complete. It is my belief that they never replaced the stamp after it broke... and all late toggles have the broken edge on the top right of the crown. If you have information which disproves my hypothesis, please post it.
I think you must be right, in fact I enclose a picture of my Erfurt.
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Unread 11-07-2015, 08:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luger.parabellum View Post
I think you must be right, in fact I enclose a picture of my Erfurt.
Sergio, I can't make out your chamber date - Is it 1918???

So it's the extreme right side of the crown that has the chipped/broken die imprint???

Is there any evidence of what year this occurred???

Sergio, your toggle looks orders of magnitude better than the one on GA. Doug's comment on the stamp impinging on the radius is well taken. I think someone has a nice new Erfurt stamp. But they need a finer tooth file.

Edit: The GA Erfurt stamp is not centered lengthwise either.
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Unread 11-07-2015, 08:53 AM   #12
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Richard
Yes it is, 1918 doubledate.
I've got no evidence of when that exactly happened mine is # 2904
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Unread 11-07-2015, 09:44 AM   #13
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I have an all matching 1916 Erfurt with the right side broken mark. I had a 1917 Erfurt and it was even more pronounced. . Bill
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Unread 11-07-2015, 10:03 AM   #14
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Who actually writes the description? Does the broker actually review it before posting and allowing such inaccuracies?
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Unread 11-07-2015, 10:41 AM   #15
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Richard: In Jan's Central book he shows: 1914 with a broken die., A 1916 without a broken die, a 1917 and 1918 with the break. So ????? Bill
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Unread 11-07-2015, 10:41 AM   #16
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The seller/poster controls the content of on-line ads.
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Unread 11-07-2015, 11:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlyon View Post
Richard: In Jan's Central book he shows: 1914 with a broken die., A 1916 without a broken die, a 1917 and 1918 with the break. So ????? Bill
And the "1914" Jones Erfurt LP-08 referenced by the seller shows an unbroken crown...But it is centered both ways...

And the chamber date on the Jones "1914" LP-08 is 1917...
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Unread 11-07-2015, 11:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
The leather is all fake as is the magazine. The pistol is a mixed parts gun; 1917 DWM receiver with Erfurt toggle train. Erfurt made LP08s in 1914 ONLY.
George,
I magnified the receiver image and I think the inspector marks and the firing proof are Erfurt. So it looks to me like a DWM barrel added to a 1917 Erfurt.
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Unread 11-07-2015, 12:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
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George,
I magnified the receiver image and I think the inspector marks and the firing proof are Erfurt. So it looks to me like a DWM barrel added to a 1917 Erfurt.
Ron, what do you & George (and others) think about the toggle??? Were there Erfurts that crudely machined/fabricated???
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Unread 11-07-2015, 12:37 PM   #20
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While I'm neither Ron nor George, I've never seen any German Luger part as rough as that toggle link. It gives new meaning to "wartime expedience".
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