LugerForum Discussion Forums my profile | register | faq | search
upload photo | donate | calendar

Go Back   LugerForum Discussion Forums > Luger Discussion Forums > All P-08 Military Lugers

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 07-09-2017, 11:55 PM   #1
Dick Herman
User
 
Dick Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 302
Thanks: 496
Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts
Default Finnish Luger rev a

In the early 1920s Finland tried to purchase Lugers from DWM. The IMKK military pistol restrictions forced Finland to purchase the Lugers with 3-3/4 inch (95mm) long barrels and chambered in 7.65mm Parabellum.

Finland adopted Parabellum Pistooli 23 (m/23) for service in the Suomen Armeija (SA). Finland purchased a total of 8,000 Luger's from DWM in Germany. Pistols in the earliest shipments were delivered between 1923 and 1928 with serial number suffix ranging from k into q. Later pistols delivered between 1928 and 1930 had the serial number suffix ranging from r into t.

This Finnish m/23 example has the commercial Crown over N proof on the left side of the receiver adjacent to an inverted SA property marking. The serial number is 9276r which was probably manufactured in 1928. The wooden magazine knob has a SA property marking stamped above a non matching serial number. This pistol has a 3-7/8 inch (98mm) barrel chambered for 7.65mm Parabellum.

The Finnish weapons experienced hard usage and arsenal reworking. This Luger example is a typical reworked Finnish m/23 with mixed numbered parts. An additional rework feature is on the underside of the breech block has an arsenal drilled hole for venting gas. Presumably the hole is to vent gas from a ruptured cartridge primer. The rear sight slot has also been machined from a sharp v to a wide u.

The m/23 served Finland through two wars against the Soviet Union; the Winter War of 1939–1940 and the Continuation War of 1941–1944. The m/23 also saw service during the Lapland War of 1944–1945 forcing the Germans to withdraw from northern Finland.

The following pictures illustrate the Finnish m/23 Parabellum complete with an early SA rig. These pistols were in service into the 1980s. While this pistol is an variation of a very common commercial Luger the Finnish application has a long history that experienced harsh usage. This application is a testament to the ruggedness and serviceability of the Luger pistol.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	11.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	244.2 KB
ID:	67058  

Click image for larger version

Name:	22.jpg
Views:	44
Size:	244.0 KB
ID:	67059  

Click image for larger version

Name:	33.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	127.9 KB
ID:	67060  

Click image for larger version

Name:	44.jpg
Views:	39
Size:	125.2 KB
ID:	67061  

Dick Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-09-2017, 11:58 PM   #2
Dick Herman
User
 
Dick Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 302
Thanks: 496
Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts
Default Finnish Luger rev a

Continued with the Luger Rigs and Tools.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	55.jpg
Views:	41
Size:	96.5 KB
ID:	67062  

Click image for larger version

Name:	66.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	162.8 KB
ID:	67063  

Click image for larger version

Name:	77.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	161.3 KB
ID:	67064  

Click image for larger version

Name:	88.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	247.5 KB
ID:	67065  

Dick Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 15 members says Thank You to Dick Herman for your post:
Unread 07-10-2017, 09:33 AM   #3
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,677
Thanks: 1,440
Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts
Default

Dick,
thanks for the good info and great pictures.

The long history of luger use by and in Finland should give food for thought to the experts that frequently opine about the fragile and finicky luger! Near 60 year history of hard use in a tough climate speaks to the reliability of the system.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2017, 10:53 AM   #4
hayhugh
User
 
hayhugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Florida/Penna
Posts: 885
Thanks: 851
Thanked 508 Times in 271 Posts
Default

Dick, would you consider the letter in this SN a "p" or an "r" or?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	p or r.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	84.8 KB
ID:	67069  

hayhugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2017, 11:20 AM   #5
Edward Tinker
Super Moderator
Eternal Lifer
LugerForum
Patron
 
Edward Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: North of Spokane, WA
Posts: 15,914
Thanks: 1,989
Thanked 4,504 Times in 2,079 Posts
Default

Dick, nice write up. I personally like the 5 inch Tikka barreled ones, but yours is very nice, interesting that the SA is upside down.

I also like the mag

Ed
Edward Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2017, 12:34 PM   #6
Dick Herman
User
 
Dick Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 302
Thanks: 496
Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts
Default

Hugh,
It is hard for me to chose from the picture if it is a p or r. Comparing to the Suffix data sheet in Technical Information there so much similarity.

Ed,
I also like longer barrel Lugers. But this rig assembly started with the SA stock and then the SA holster. I was happy to locate this m/23 with a 3-7/8 inch barrel to fit the holster.
Dick Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2017, 02:23 PM   #7
rhuff
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
rhuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Az.
Posts: 2,272
Thanks: 2,692
Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts
Default

Thank you for the history lesson and the great photos. I have never seen(I don't believe) a complete Finnish Luger assembly. I learned something today.
rhuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-10-2017, 02:50 PM   #8
DonVoigt
User
 
DonVoigt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: near Charlotte NC
Posts: 4,677
Thanks: 1,440
Thanked 4,348 Times in 2,038 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hayhugh View Post
Dick, would you consider the letter in this SN a "p" or an "r" or?
I'm not Dick,
but it is a "P".
The "r" is not shaped like that.
__________________
03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector.
Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie
DonVoigt is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to DonVoigt for your post:
Unread 07-10-2017, 08:02 PM   #9
Dwight Gruber
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,890
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhuff View Post
Thank you for the history lesson and the great photos. I have never seen(I don't believe) a complete Finnish Luger assembly. I learned something today.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...ht=finnish+rig

--Dwight
Dwight Gruber is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Dwight Gruber for your post:
Unread 07-11-2017, 08:21 AM   #10
jussi16
User
 
jussi16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Finland
Posts: 250
Thanks: 77
Thanked 51 Times in 31 Posts
Thumbs up

Hello!

A nice rig, but the cleaning rod is a part of the rifle cleaning kit.
An original is now for sale on eBay. Not mine.
Thanks for showing.
jussi16 is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to jussi16 for your post:
Unread 07-11-2017, 02:08 PM   #11
rhuff
Patron
LugerForum
Patron
 
rhuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Az.
Posts: 2,272
Thanks: 2,692
Thanked 959 Times in 705 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber View Post

Thank you Dwight....loss of memory is a terrible, but natural, thing.
rhuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-11-2017, 04:00 PM   #12
Kyrie
User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 757
Thanks: 0
Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Dick,

Thank you for the marvelous post – this really takes me back in time.

I’d always wanted a representative example from the Finn contract, and was pleasantly surprised when Century Arms International bought a bunch when the Finns liquidated back in the late 1980s, early 1990s:



This is the one I picked up (along with something like a thousand rounds of ammunition):













Best,

Kyrie
Kyrie is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Kyrie for your post:
Unread 07-11-2017, 10:11 PM   #13
Dick Herman
User
 
Dick Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 302
Thanks: 496
Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts
Default

Juha,
Thank you for the cleaning rod information. The displayed rod came with the holster. I thought that the rod is too long for the holster.
Dick Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
The following member says Thank You to Dick Herman for your post:
Unread 07-13-2017, 01:03 AM   #14
stg44fan
User
 
stg44fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 81
Thanks: 42
Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Thanks for sharing. That is a terrific looking rig! I am a big fan of the Finnish Lugers.

Where did you find the info regarding the serial number suffix ranges for the Finland contract Lugers? I only ask because my Finnish M23 is in the "i" suffix.
stg44fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2017, 12:51 PM   #15
Dick Herman
User
 
Dick Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 302
Thanks: 496
Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts
Default

I believe that information came from "Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols" by Joachim Gortz & Dr. Geoffrey Sturgess. This is a fantastic reference source on the Luger.

Two other references that I used were “The Luger Story” by John Walters and "Handguns of the World" by Rd Ezell.
Dick Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 07-13-2017, 10:38 PM   #16
stg44fan
User
 
stg44fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 81
Thanks: 42
Thanked 49 Times in 27 Posts
Default

Thank you. The Gortz & Sturgess books have been on my list for awhile now.
stg44fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-20-2019, 10:01 PM   #17
Dick Herman
User
 
Dick Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 302
Thanks: 496
Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts
Default

Another Finnish m/23 rig.
Dick Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-21-2019, 08:36 AM   #18
kurusu
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,225
Thanks: 2,679
Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts
Default

I have one thing to say. Fine as they are, the Finnish contrat Lugers are not P.08s.
kurusu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-21-2019, 12:07 PM   #19
Dick Herman
User
 
Dick Herman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 302
Thanks: 496
Thanked 354 Times in 138 Posts
Default

You are correct, the Finnish m/23 Luger was in harsh service for 57 years. The P.08 served for 37 years.
The m/23 was the shorter barreled 7.65mm Parabellum that DWM was allowed to manufacture under the Versailles treaty. Would you prefer that this be placed in the Commercial Luger section?

Last edited by Dick Herman; 04-21-2019 at 12:20 PM. Reason: Versailles treaty
Dick Herman is offline   Reply With Quote
The following 2 members says Thank You to Dick Herman for your post:
Unread 04-21-2019, 12:53 PM   #20
sheepherder
Lifer
Lifetime Forum
Patron
 
sheepherder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal...
Posts: 8,182
Thanks: 1,398
Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts
Default

Kyrie's post here is an excellent example of why we don't recommend linking off-site pictures...
__________________
I like my coffee the
way I like my women...
...Cold and bitter...
sheepherder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Lugerforum.com