A Test Eagle...

Dwight Gruber · 01-26-2004, 06:02 AM

...and a cautionary tale.

At this weekend's Portland Gun Show (a 2 1/2-day affair) a guy entered the hall and walked around carrying a Luger in a shoulder holster. The Luger folks who were there (not the full complement of 'Usual Suspects') told me about it in their turn--"It was a 1900 Eagle, a real wreck of a gun"..."It was in such bad shape that I wouldn't pay $200 for it"..."I wouldn't even buy it for parts"...were some of the comments I heard.

I had an inpired thought about this gun and did some research, and finally made contact with him and got a look at it. It was a wreck all right, but I looked at the serial numbers and, lo and behold, it was a 1900AE Test Eagle, smack in the middle of the core range and the Bannerman series--no question.

And herein lieth the lesson. This guy walked around for -two days- without anyone giving the gun any more than a cursory look--they saw its condition and passed it off without even -looking- at the serial number. It was my good fortune that this was the case, but every one of those folks--every one of us--should remember that its the details which make a Luger valuable, and even the meanest example could be the treasure of the day.

The Luger itself--Test Eagle serial# 6761--is truly a hard case. The grips are matching-numbered, but the breechblock has been replaced and the locking lug is a bubba-built replacement. (Actually the gun is missing the recoil spring and stirrup as well, much less of an annoyance because I have a spare original spring...)

The gun was reblued at one time in its life--the polished-out safety area has been blued over--but it now has very little finish of any kind. The photos below actually look better than the gun itself.

I never actually expected to ever own a Test Eagle--despite its condition, it made my weekend.

--Dwight

Doug G. · 01-26-2004, 10:03 AM

Dwight, it looks rough, but restorable. What are your plans for the old girl? If it were mine I'd send it off to get a make over at Thor's. My .02

Ron Wood · 01-26-2004, 11:35 AM

Dwight,
You have found a true diamond in the rough. It is salvageable. Even though the breechblock has been replaced with a later vintage, the good news is that the receiver has not been notched to accommodate the new model extractor, so with the proper breechblock it will look 100% OK. The forward toggle link was probably also replaced along with the breech block since the old model toggle link has a different shaped cam that cocks the firing pin and won't work properly with a new model breech block. So if you can find both pieces in decent shape it should turn out pretty nice. I think this is justifiable case for restoration. Since it has already been subject to extensive indignities, it deserves a better fate in retirement. Congratulations on having the knowledge and intuition to bring it back to the collecting community. And I especially appreciate the addition to the serial number list.

P.S. I don't think it was reblued. The polised safety area still shows up as a machined depression. The brightness has been dimmed by the same "patina" that covers the rest of the piece.

Dwight Gruber · 01-26-2004, 01:49 PM

Guys,

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not one who normally considers restoration, I'll have to ponder this further. Obviously I need to see to replacing a couple of parts first.

The forward toggle is actually the original, so thats a bonus.

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 01-26-2004, 08:16 PM

Hello Dwight,

I think it very admirable that you decided to purchase this Test piece and to keep her together...most folks would think about "parting" out this luger for its intrinsic parts value...

I think I would be in the same dilemma you would be in, once I managed to get the "correct" missing pieces...to restore or not to restore...

Based the on the fact that you are only into this luger for $ 500 plus maybe $ 200 more for correct, missing pieces...adding Thor's cost to thsese costs would yield a very nicely restored US Test Eagle that will look good for many years to come...all for around $ 1000-1200. One cannot touch a decent 95-98% Test luger for much under $ 2400.00 nowdays...

Since Swiss wide triggers and early Swiss M1900 lugers command such high dollars nowdays, this might well be the route I go to add these two pieces to my collection.

I suspect most have a restored piece or two in their collections...maybe some are not willing to admit to such...but I would be proud to own a US Test luger, restored by Thor or Gale Morgan, for around $ 1100-1200...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Johnny C. Kitchens · 01-30-2004, 02:32 AM

Is that the so called "flaming bomb" mark in front of the recoil lug???

Dwight Gruber · 01-30-2004, 03:22 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Johnny C. Kitchens:
Is that the so called "flaming bomb" mark in front of the recoil lug???<hr /></blockquote>Yes.

--Dwight

John Sabato · 01-30-2004, 08:05 AM

Dwight, if you haven't already, check the Tech Info pages... Viggo submitted a graphic of the "so-called" flaming bomb mark and it is there...

ViggoG · 01-30-2004, 08:47 PM

WOW !!!.. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> .. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> .. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />
A third version of the very argumentative
"Flaming Bomb" Surfaces on Dwight Gruber's
"Crippled Test Eagle" !!!!
Dwight, Could you do a closeup of this Inspectors Mark in compatable size for placing with the other two versions in our "Technical Information" page ?
John S, Would you please place it along with the others.?
Another tiny step in settling the questions that keep arising !
ViggoG

John Sabato · 01-30-2004, 09:29 PM

Perhaps if all who have examples of this stamp would submit good clear closeups of theirs, we can create a small study of the marks in much the same way as Dwight collected and studied the witness marks. Anyone who submits such photos to me can be assured that I will create a special place to post them. This should be a very interesting study...

I am not aware of more than one or two of these marks in any Luger reference book... this will be a unique feature of the forum.

Herb · 01-30-2004, 10:14 PM

Dwight, check your private messages, you have one, time is running out.

Dwight Gruber · 01-31-2004, 12:34 AM

Viggo,

I will be engaging myself with the photographic aspect of this hobby very soon, and I'll be sure to document the mark.

--Dwight

01-26-2004, 06:02 AM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,313 Times in 430 Posts	A Test Eagle... ...and a cautionary tale. At this weekend's Portland Gun Show (a 2 1/2-day affair) a guy entered the hall and walked around carrying a Luger in a shoulder holster. The Luger folks who were there (not the full complement of 'Usual Suspects') told me about it in their turn--"It was a 1900 Eagle, a real wreck of a gun"..."It was in such bad shape that I wouldn't pay $200 for it"..."I wouldn't even buy it for parts"...were some of the comments I heard. I had an inpired thought about this gun and did some research, and finally made contact with him and got a look at it. It was a wreck all right, but I looked at the serial numbers and, lo and behold, it was a 1900AE Test Eagle, smack in the middle of the core range and the Bannerman series--no question. And herein lieth the lesson. This guy walked around for -two days- without anyone giving the gun any more than a cursory look--they saw its condition and passed it off without even -looking- at the serial number. It was my good fortune that this was the case, but every one of those folks--every one of us--should remember that its the details which make a Luger valuable, and even the meanest example could be the treasure of the day. The Luger itself--Test Eagle serial# 6761--is truly a hard case. The grips are matching-numbered, but the breechblock has been replaced and the locking lug is a bubba-built replacement. (Actually the gun is missing the recoil spring and stirrup as well, much less of an annoyance because I have a spare original spring...) The gun was reblued at one time in its life--the polished-out safety area has been blued over--but it now has very little finish of any kind. The photos below actually look better than the gun itself. I never actually expected to ever own a Test Eagle--despite its condition, it made my weekend. --Dwight

01-26-2004, 10:03 AM	#2
Doug G. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Illinois Posts: 713 Thanks: 1 Thanked 53 Times in 17 Posts	Dwight, it looks rough, but restorable. What are your plans for the old girl? If it were mine I'd send it off to get a make over at Thor's. My .02 __________________ Suppose you were an idiot.....and suppose you were a member of Congress.....But I repeat myself" ~~ Mark Twain

01-26-2004, 11:35 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,020 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,173 Times in 1,701 Posts	Dwight, You have found a true diamond in the rough. It is salvageable. Even though the breechblock has been replaced with a later vintage, the good news is that the receiver has not been notched to accommodate the new model extractor, so with the proper breechblock it will look 100% OK. The forward toggle link was probably also replaced along with the breech block since the old model toggle link has a different shaped cam that cocks the firing pin and won't work properly with a new model breech block. So if you can find both pieces in decent shape it should turn out pretty nice. I think this is justifiable case for restoration. Since it has already been subject to extensive indignities, it deserves a better fate in retirement. Congratulations on having the knowledge and intuition to bring it back to the collecting community. And I especially appreciate the addition to the serial number list. P.S. I don't think it was reblued. The polised safety area still shows up as a machined depression. The brightness has been dimmed by the same "patina" that covers the rest of the piece. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-30-2004, 02:32 AM	#6
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Is that the so called "flaming bomb" mark in front of the recoil lug??? __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

01-30-2004, 03:22 AM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,313 Times in 430 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Johnny C. Kitchens: <strong>Is that the so called "flaming bomb" mark in front of the recoil lug???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Yes. --Dwight

01-26-2004, 01:49 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,313 Times in 430 Posts	Guys, Thanks for your thoughts. I'm not one who normally considers restoration, I'll have to ponder this further. Obviously I need to see to replacing a couple of parts first. The forward toggle is actually the original, so thats a bonus. --Dwight

01-26-2004, 08:16 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Dwight, I think it very admirable that you decided to purchase this Test piece and to keep her together...most folks would think about "parting" out this luger for its intrinsic parts value... I think I would be in the same dilemma you would be in, once I managed to get the "correct" missing pieces...to restore or not to restore... Based the on the fact that you are only into this luger for $ 500 plus maybe $ 200 more for correct, missing pieces...adding Thor's cost to thsese costs would yield a very nicely restored US Test Eagle that will look good for many years to come...all for around $ 1000-1200. One cannot touch a decent 95-98% Test luger for much under $ 2400.00 nowdays... Since Swiss wide triggers and early Swiss M1900 lugers command such high dollars nowdays, this might well be the route I go to add these two pieces to my collection. I suspect most have a restored piece or two in their collections...maybe some are not willing to admit to such...but I would be proud to own a US Test luger, restored by Thor or Gale Morgan, for around $ 1100-1200... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

01-30-2004, 08:05 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Dwight, if you haven't already, check the Tech Info pages... Viggo submitted a graphic of the "so-called" flaming bomb mark and it is there... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-30-2004, 08:47 PM	#9
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	WOW !!!.. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> .. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> .. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> A third version of the very argumentative "Flaming Bomb" Surfaces on Dwight Gruber's "Crippled Test Eagle" !!!! Dwight, Could you do a closeup of this Inspectors Mark in compatable size for placing with the other two versions in our "Technical Information" page ? John S, Would you please place it along with the others.? Another tiny step in settling the questions that keep arising ! ViggoG

01-30-2004, 09:29 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	Perhaps if all who have examples of this stamp would submit good clear closeups of theirs, we can create a small study of the marks in much the same way as Dwight collected and studied the witness marks. Anyone who submits such photos to me can be assured that I will create a special place to post them. This should be a very interesting study... I am not aware of more than one or two of these marks in any Luger reference book... this will be a unique feature of the forum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-30-2004, 10:14 PM	#11
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dwight, check your private messages, you have one, time is running out. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

01-31-2004, 12:34 AM	#12
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,313 Times in 430 Posts	Viggo, I will be engaging myself with the photographic aspect of this hobby very soon, and I'll be sure to document the mark. --Dwight