Theory of future luger prices in relation to age discrimination.....LONG

[Edward Tung]

I am probably one of the youngest members of this forum(23yrs old). I first got into lugers when my friends dad found out I liked guns and sold me a decent BYF41 for a great deal that was aquired through the family somehow. When I look around in my age group(21-26), out of all those people I know(~50 individuals), only 4 people own guns and thats because they are shooting buddies of mine. One guy is a gun owner because I took him shooting. Now the age group above mine(27-33), there are quite a few more gun owners but they are mostly into Glocks and Sigs and assault weapons type stuff. If you asked someone in my age group what a luger is, they would probably give you a blank stare. Now granted, I do live in Cali and most people are anti gun but I imagine individuals in my age group across the nation have this very little interest in the shooting sport and even less interest in collectibles such as lugers.

With this in mind, lugers are valuable due to low supply and high demand. Nice lugers are all in the hands of individuals who are roughly in the age group of early 40's to 70's. Once those individuals start croaking off(10-20yrs), there will be a rather large influx of collectible excellent condition lugers entering the market. Unfortunately, since there will be low demand due to lack of interest from the younger generations, these guns will not command nearly as much as they did before. I believe this applies for most old collectible guns.

Now why is there this lack of interest from people in my age group? I have a wonderful example to share which involves two individuals who frequent this forum. I was at the reno gun show back in I believe was march of this year. I had about 20k saved up from graduation presents and some stocks that I had cashed out and was looking to buy some nice lugers to add to my dismal collection. I specifically was looking for a minty navy with all accessories or perhaps a Kreighoff. As I walked around, I noticed a table with an older gentleman who had what appeared to be such an item. This navy had the holster, two mags, cleaning tool, and looked to be in pretty decent shape. I asked the individual if I could take a look at the piece. He looked me up and down as if I had just asked him to fornicate with a farm animal and replied tersely, "Do you know what that is?". I replied politely that I indeed did know and that it was a Navy luger and would like to take a closer inspection. Then in an arrogant tone but with a look as if I was a bum asking to wash his windows for change, "Do you know how much that costs?". I was pretty pissed by now and asked if this was twenty questions or did he want to sell the pistol. He replied that the gun did not belong to him and that he was merely watching it for the owner who had gone to look around. I looked over at my buddy as I pulled out the twenty grand I had in hundreds. I quickly flipped through it and asked my friend loudly if he thought I had enough to afford the pistol in question. The abnoxious gunsitter sat there with a dumbfounded expression on his face as I walked away with a smirk.

The point I would like to make is that I have faced this type of attitude as have my friends. I don't know if it's because were young and they think were poor or something. But the way I would look at it is, take some time and enlighten the younger generation. When we get a bit older, we will have more disposable income to buy all the cool old guns therefore continuing this great hobby.

[George Anderson]

Hey Ed, I can almost guarantee that the old "guy" ((George!!! -Please, no more pseudowords for prohibited language...) -edited by admin-JS) with the navy carries the initials F.F.

Also, you're correct...it's a Kalifornia thing. After this election and Kalifornia's secession the ratio will correct itself.

[jamese]

Edward,
I must say you have very interesting perspective. If your theory holds true....then you will be in the right place at the right time to become the next major Luger Collector/Dealer. Thatâ??s assuming any of us are allowed to own or have guns in the next 20 years. Iâ??m sure that the current Democratic presidential candidate will not be the only anti-gun liberal who will be attempting outlaw guns over the 20 years.

I can only tell you that I wish I had developed the â??Luger addictionâ?� when I was in my 20â??s. That would have given me not only 15-20 more years of collecting experience and knowledge, but I would have been able to talk directly to the WW1 vets about their experienceâ??s and the stories that go with most of the guns I now own.

As far as you being offended by the treatment you received, believe me your not the only one who get the cold shoulder from dealers sometime, however instead of taking offense to the treatment, you should use your position of perceived ignorance, and turn it around to your advantage. You can easily determine if the seller is an Honest straight shooter or not when they think you donâ??t know anything about the subject.
The way I see it, because of your reaction you and the seller both missed an opportunity.

Oh , by the way Iâ??m still buying Lugers, gambling that your theory is wrong and that the next generation will still be fighting to protect our rights to own and posses firearms.

Jim

[unspellable]

This same question has been bandied about among slide rule collectors. Most of them are old enough to remember when slide rules were actually used. After they are gone, will the next generation know what a slide rule is or care? What will this do for prices in the market?

[John Sabato]

Hey! watch it No�«l... I happen to be part of the 'slide rule' generation... and still have mine somewhere up in the attic... The only thing they are useful for, since the advent of the digital calculator, is drawing straight lines...

[Edward Tinker]

Well, that is not just true with guns. As a "kid" "14-17 years old" (and being 44 years old, I figure I have more than 20 years left to me), as a kid I was given this same kind of treatment, and many times I knew a heck of a lot more than the guy sitting there selling. But also, I never had 20k, which is a hell of a lot of money, and it is possible you were arrogant sounding to him (in return), he sounds like I would have been irritated also by his attitude.

I feel that many Lugerâ??s are in the hands of â??olderâ?� guys, but that is because they have the money from years of trading, collecting and working. There are also younger guys collecting, you can look at the photos on this forum, and see that not everyone is an old foggy. I started collecting Luger (1 that is) in my early 20â??s, although I bought Datig in my late teens.

My point is, there are lots of jerks out there, but there are lots of nice guys too. And I get treated like dirt at times too, and believe me, that irritates the hell out of me, as I am sure it irritates you!

Welcome to the forum, but watch the calling George an old fuddy-duddyâ?¦

Ed

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Edward Tung,

Some of the older folks at the tables at gun shows can take a bit to warm up to and vice versa.

I sense a lot of the folks behind the tables are tired from traveling and setting up and then have their hands full watching their tables and those of their buddies to make sure wares do not "walk away". I think they also get tired and probably a bit short tempered with "tire kickers".

Some older, conservative sellers, seeing your $ 20K bankroll may have assumed the worst...i.e you are trying to flash money around to buy a piece without the paperwork, you might just be showing-off a bit and are not a serious buyer, you might be a BATF agent, your money is drug-money, etc...(not saying or implying any of the above are true in your case... ).

If you tend to be like many younger folks nowdays that dress in the hip-hop, "gangsta" style; I suspect a generational gap may have been at work...as well.

Sometimes racial/ethnic barriers come into play...I find this from time to time in my gun show travels in the mid-west; especially after 9/11 and with my ethnic heritage...I can appear to come from several trouble spots in our world today.

I do find folks at gun shows watching tables for their table-mates who may be walking the gun show floor themselves. In Tulsa, I had to go back to one vendor's tables 6-7 times over a 2-day period before I finally got to meet him, introduce myself, shake his hand, and then negotiate the sale of a nice luger. Patience on my part paid off, as I became the owner of a very nice pistol.

There are a couple of C&R gun shops near your home : San Jose Gun Exchange in SJ and Mike Krause' Krausewerks, in San Mateo. I have found folks at both shops willing to talk lugers, if you catch them at the shop during off-peak times.

I am sure no one would take your $ 20K bank roll lightly in either shop. For 3/4 of that bank roll, Krause can easily sell you a nice, custom-made Luger in .45 cal. He has one on display in the shop and takes orders.

p.s. I saw a couple of your previous posts on the original Luger Forum a few years back. If you use terms such as "old prunes" and "old croaks" too freely, this might not work with some folks in person...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

[kidvett]

Edward,

Quite interesting.........Here are a few observations & point of view of mine.

On the ``young generation``: I am in the early 40s ( oups !! ) and let me tell you that I'm part of the scarce group of ``young `` Collectors here in Quebec & more so in Canada. Sadly, on some occasions ``old timers`` dont seem to take this seriously.........well until they see, for example, a small display of mine at a local show & after guntalk is started.........A failure to recognize which is quite similar to your experience.......

I am involved in different firearms things, mainly German pistols collecting, pistol shooting ( modern ), small & big game hunting, big bore rifle shooting,...and young people involved in those are mostly early 30s....I am curious as to the ``follow up`` in 15-20 years........Most ( if not all ) Moose hunters I see in the last years are grey haired.........Where this will lead us ?? I dont know !! But I do enjoy it & will continue to do so........

Areas of interests........Young shooters I see prefer modern ``black guns``.......We prefer ``Classics`` & I am quite traditional in my firearms........WWI & WWII were not so far back for some of us, others were introduced to firearms at a young age ( my case ). There could be many reasons for our specific interests, I wont get into that. But perhaps the ``young Collectors`` of the future will be collecting Vietnam & recent conflicts stuff........Who knows ??

Values.....Well, we are willing to pay top dollars for a desired piece....I have no problem with that !! And if the prices go down, what can I do.........This problem will be left for those in my ``last will `` to sell the whole collection at a loss cause I'm gonna be gone.........

Lastly, dont let that bad experience get to you........Most Gunshow guys ( myself included ) can usually be talked down a bit on price...........

Leaving first hour tomorrow morning for a Deer hunt with that trusty 375 Winchester........

MARK <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

[wterrell]

Building a collection of rare handguns SHOULD be the fodder of the young.
But, the whole thing is backward. There are many very good reasons that older guys are able to be successful collectors and a man must be older than dirt to put together a fine collection.

The following is a numerical list of a few of the reasons that the young cannot be very good collectors, and should leave the field for us older guys:

1) Researchers say fellers under 30 years old think about sex every 10 seconds. Old guys only think about sex a couple of times a day, leaving us more that 28,000
additional seconds per day to concentrate on Lugers.

2) Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and a cranky collector is a dangerous collector and a buyer with which to be reckoned.

3) A younger man is too considerate of his wifeâ??s opinion. If we, older men, can't persuade our wives to let us acquire a valuable Luger we'll complain them into submission. "My back hurts!" "I'm hungry!" "Where's the remote control?"

5) A young guy doesn't like to get up before 10 a.m. so they donâ??t get to the gun show before the rare bargain guns are gone. Old guys have no problem getting up early (to pee).

6) If old guys donâ??t buy a rare find immediately when we see it, we forget where we saw it. In fact, trying to remember if we already own a better example of a particular model can be a real brainteaser.

7) Youngsters are too soft. The â??dog houseâ?� (where our wives banish us) is actually easier for old guys. We're used to getting screamed and yelled at and we actually like the out of doors.

8) We've developed a deep appreciation for guns and rifles. We like them almost better than naps.

10) A young man has the whole world ahead of him. He's still learning to shave, to actually carry on a conversation, to wear pants without the top of the butt crack showing and the boxer shorts sticking out, to learn that a pierced tongue catches food particles, and that a 200-watt speaker in the back seat of a Honda Accord can rupture an eardrum and detonate a magazine of bullets.

The above are all great reasons to leave the Luger collecting to the old farts and to learn a little more about life before going off to financial ruin in pursuit of the rare Luger. Let us old guys track down those handguns. The last thing your wives would want to see right now is a couple of dozen new acquisitions in the gun vault instead of a new baby stroller for Junior.

[Edward Tinker]

Amen

[Ron Smith]

Wes
Could'nt have been said better.

[jamese]

Wes,
very nicely said !
I look foward to the day I can meet you in person
Jim

[Edward Tung]

HAHAHAHA......good one Wes. Unfortunately, I drive a porsche and a MB so the honda with the system doesn't apply. I do have a surround sound system in the MB if that counts though.

I don't have a wife but I do have a GF for about 4yrs now. Yeah yeah.....you guys own shirts that are 20 times older. She buys her stuff and I buy mine. We leave each other alone when it comes to shopping as it leads to nothing but arguments and furniture destroying makeup sex! =)

Your right about the waking up thing though. Last time I dragged my buddy to the gunshow, I woke his ass up at 9AM and he was whining like a little girl. Next time I'm going by myself.

And whats wrong with me wearing my size 42 extra wide baggy jeans at my knees with my pinstripe retro #23 Jordan jersey size XXL and my platinum chain iced out with "bling bling"? =)

[Luke]

Wes -

Remarkable insight. Thanks for the smiles.

From an "old guy" . . . . Luke

[John Sabato]

Mr Terrell! ...you young whippersnapper! Now that you have revealed all the old-timer secrets... what is left for Mr. Tung to discover on his own! ! ! <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

By the way Edward, I also remember your name from the OLD Luger forum... welcome back...

[Ron Smith]

Edward, Always keep in mind that Youth and Over-confidence. Is no match for Experience and Treachery. We've lived this long. You still have to get here.
Ron

[Jack Lawman]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">
Posted by wes:
7) Youngsters are too soft. The â??dog houseâ?� (where our wives banish us) is actually easier for old guys. We're used to getting screamed and yelled at and we actually like the out of doors.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">That was a great list. #7 reminds me of a joke I like, "We like sleeping on the couch... it's like camping."

Jack

[Lugerdoc]

Edward, I share your opinion that there are fewer young gun collectors coming up than in "baby boom" generation. I believe that government regulations and the anti-gun approach to education is partially responsible. You can can't order a luger mail order for $39.95 like when I was your age. Price increases have really only kept up with inflation. When I got out of college, $10K/year was a good job offer. My nephew graduated recently and started at $60K/year and now getting close to $100K as an engineer. Also as time goes on the supply of lugers, or whatever in collectable condition decrease from use, lost or improper storage. So a drop in demand is also met with a drop in supply. Also collector scholarship increases, the rare variations become better recognized and more sought after. No one's selling HK's for the same price as Mausers, as years ago. As in the past, if you want bargains, start collecting in area that aren't currently popular and do your own research. TH

[Edward Tung]

Hey John...thanks for the welcome back. I've been here the whole time but just read. I don't have much to contribute as most of what I know is just common knowledge here.