Newbie with a DWM 1917

Capnmac62 · 12-18-2018, 10:54 AM

New to the Luger Game need help with Identification and history of gun. Did my best with pictures but will get you folks anything you ask for to assist with information.

mrerick · 12-18-2018, 10:57 AM

Hi and welcome to the forum. Start by studying the reference material we've gathered and published for free in the forum's FAQ document.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

You'll find it ever useful as you become familiar with Lugers.

Your Luger has a number of unusual proof marks that I believe may be from the Birmingham Proof house in England. Others that know the marks better will confirm or correct me.

The text on the side is not readable, but may be an American import mark.

I find the finish hard to judge. The gun may have been reworked and refinished at some point.

Capnmac62 · 12-18-2018, 10:59 AM

Just a few more pictures. Let me know your thoughts and anything else I can photograph

DavidJayUden · 12-18-2018, 11:01 AM

Interesting gun. I'm going out on a limb here, but will speculate that it is a DWM 9mm Luger made originally for the German army. Then I suspect that it made it's way to England, where it underwent British Proof Testing, resulting in all the extra stampings.
We'll see if the others agree, but in the mean time, what questions did you have?
dju

mrerick · 12-18-2018, 11:24 AM

The holster is likely a modern reproduction, and the magazine is a modern replacement magazine.

If the holster is original, it is valuable in that condition. Photos of the rear, rear markings and left edge as you face it will help.

It's not in the military style, but rather in a police style with that strap and stud.

Capnmac62 · 12-18-2018, 01:06 PM

DJU - Thanks I pretty much came to the same conclusion after some studying in regard to the orig. Army followed by some time in England just not knowledgeable enough to say it out loud. Thanks for the input for sure and please if anyone else sees anything chime in.

I'd love to know what all the different makings are? I would also appreciate an assessment of it's quality/rating and rough value. I picked it up in a deal I was making for another gun and don't have much in it.

mrerick - I do appreciate the input and from brief study I knew the holster was newer as it's stamped 1938 on the back side and of course the magazines don't have the wooden base. Where would be the best place to acquire a correct magazine and holster? Is this gun worth spending the money on to get the period correct items?? or is it just a shooter?

Capnmac62 · 12-18-2018, 01:14 PM

mrerick - the marking that is hard to read says NOTENGLISHMADE pics were best I could do and make it hard to read. The finish appears to be original however again I am new to Lugers so I yield to you guys as experts.

DavidJayUden · 12-18-2018, 01:40 PM

"NotEnglishMade", that's a new one.
The markings are pretty straight-forward, the date over the chamber, acceptance markings on the right side, full or partial serial numbers throughout, DWM scroll on the top, and you may find an odd initial here and there from the inspectors. Not sure what is just in front of the safety lever. "8.83", or something very close, under the barrel denoting bore diameter.
The spotiness of the bluing makes me wonder if it has been touched up with cold blue, which may leave a telltale smell.
Any other markings will probably require a close-up photo.
dju

Capnmac62 · 12-18-2018, 02:24 PM

DJU - Thanks I guess the Britts did the notenglishmade while they were tinkering with it?? I haven't noticed any odor of bluing at all. I have some vintage guns and to me the wear look natural?? Maybe it's the pics?

Is there any collector value in this gun or is it a Shooter?

Capnmac62 · 12-18-2018, 02:26 PM

Oh and I will see if I can get a better look at the markings near the safety lever.

rhuff · 12-18-2018, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

"NotEnglishMade", that's a new one.
dju

This is pretty common on firearms that spent time in England and then came to the USA. I own a 1944 Colt 1911A1 that was a lend-lease gun to England. It is stamped with this information before it returned to the USA.

DavidJayUden · 12-18-2018, 02:48 PM

I'm seeing the value around $1000. The shown numbers match except the magazine, but the finish is spotty. We don't know if the grips and internals match, and the Brits. stamped their marks literally everywhere on the gun, which, for me, is buzz-kill.
The holster and 2 mags. help it as a shooter, but not as a collector.
But again, maybe the others will tell me I'm full of beans.
dju

mrerick · 12-18-2018, 02:57 PM

The rounded edge wear is typical of a refinished gun. Also bluing that is on the inside of the frame and receiver and the lack of halos on the barrel serial number.

It's a very nice shooter if it functions properly.

I would not invest money in enhancing it or adding original magazines. Put that money into a more collectible Luger.

Capnmac62 · 12-18-2018, 03:19 PM

Thanks for all the input.. I had it stripped down to parade rest and all the parts including the grips were matched number. I will follow all advice and keep this one the way it is and keep an eye out for a better collector.

cirelaw · 12-18-2018, 03:24 PM

Blued inside rail is a dead give away! Tks

12-18-2018, 10:54 AM	#1
Capnmac62 User Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie with a DWM 1917 New to the Luger Game need help with Identification and history of gun. Did my best with pictures but will get you folks anything you ask for to assist with information. Attached Thumbnails

12-18-2018, 10:57 AM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi and welcome to the forum. Start by studying the reference material we've gathered and published for free in the forum's FAQ document. http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121 You'll find it ever useful as you become familiar with Lugers. Your Luger has a number of unusual proof marks that I believe may be from the Birmingham Proof house in England. Others that know the marks better will confirm or correct me. The text on the side is not readable, but may be an American import mark. I find the finish hard to judge. The gun may have been reworked and refinished at some point. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-18-2018, 10:59 AM	#3
Capnmac62 User Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More pics Just a few more pictures. Let me know your thoughts and anything else I can photograph Attached Thumbnails

12-18-2018, 11:24 AM	#5
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The holster is likely a modern reproduction, and the magazine is a modern replacement magazine. If the holster is original, it is valuable in that condition. Photos of the rear, rear markings and left edge as you face it will help. It's not in the military style, but rather in a police style with that strap and stud. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war. Last edited by mrerick; 12-18-2018 at 02:54 PM.

12-18-2018, 02:57 PM	#13
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The rounded edge wear is typical of a refinished gun. Also bluing that is on the inside of the frame and receiver and the lack of halos on the barrel serial number. It's a very nice shooter if it functions properly. I would not invest money in enhancing it or adding original magazines. Put that money into a more collectible Luger. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-18-2018, 11:01 AM	#4
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Interesting gun. I'm going out on a limb here, but will speculate that it is a DWM 9mm Luger made originally for the German army. Then I suspect that it made it's way to England, where it underwent British Proof Testing, resulting in all the extra stampings. We'll see if the others agree, but in the mean time, what questions did you have? dju

12-18-2018, 01:06 PM	#6
Capnmac62 User Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DJU - Thanks I pretty much came to the same conclusion after some studying in regard to the orig. Army followed by some time in England just not knowledgeable enough to say it out loud. Thanks for the input for sure and please if anyone else sees anything chime in. I'd love to know what all the different makings are? I would also appreciate an assessment of it's quality/rating and rough value. I picked it up in a deal I was making for another gun and don't have much in it. mrerick - I do appreciate the input and from brief study I knew the holster was newer as it's stamped 1938 on the back side and of course the magazines don't have the wooden base. Where would be the best place to acquire a correct magazine and holster? Is this gun worth spending the money on to get the period correct items?? or is it just a shooter?

12-18-2018, 01:14 PM	#7
Capnmac62 User Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	mrerick - the marking that is hard to read says NOTENGLISHMADE pics were best I could do and make it hard to read. The finish appears to be original however again I am new to Lugers so I yield to you guys as experts.

12-18-2018, 01:40 PM	#8
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	"NotEnglishMade", that's a new one. The markings are pretty straight-forward, the date over the chamber, acceptance markings on the right side, full or partial serial numbers throughout, DWM scroll on the top, and you may find an odd initial here and there from the inspectors. Not sure what is just in front of the safety lever. "8.83", or something very close, under the barrel denoting bore diameter. The spotiness of the bluing makes me wonder if it has been touched up with cold blue, which may leave a telltale smell. Any other markings will probably require a close-up photo. dju

12-18-2018, 02:24 PM	#9
Capnmac62 User Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	DJU - Thanks I guess the Britts did the notenglishmade while they were tinkering with it?? I haven't noticed any odor of bluing at all. I have some vintage guns and to me the wear look natural?? Maybe it's the pics? Is there any collector value in this gun or is it a Shooter?

12-18-2018, 02:26 PM	#10
Capnmac62 User Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh and I will see if I can get a better look at the markings near the safety lever.

12-18-2018, 02:48 PM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I'm seeing the value around $1000. The shown numbers match except the magazine, but the finish is spotty. We don't know if the grips and internals match, and the Brits. stamped their marks literally everywhere on the gun, which, for me, is buzz-kill. The holster and 2 mags. help it as a shooter, but not as a collector. But again, maybe the others will tell me I'm full of beans. dju

12-18-2018, 03:19 PM	#14
Capnmac62 User Join Date: Dec 2018 Posts: 7 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the input.. I had it stripped down to parade rest and all the parts including the grips were matched number. I will follow all advice and keep this one the way it is and keep an eye out for a better collector.

12-18-2018, 03:24 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Blued inside rail is a dead give away! Tks