Help with Luger from Finland

anta71 · 06-07-2014, 05:12 PM

Hi

I am trying to find out more about a Luger that belonged to my Grandfather, who served in the Finnish army. He started his military training in Germany in 1915 (in the socalled "Jägerbataillon"). Later he took part in the Finnish Civil War and served in the army until the late 1920s. Hence the Luger could be from any time from 1915 to 1927 or thereabouts.

I have tried to understand the markings on the Luger, and match them with the information I have found on this excellent site and others. Unfortunately I have not been able to determine what year the Luger is from. Can anyone help me, based on the enclosed pictures? (Let me know if other pictures are required to form an opinion.)

Thanks in advance!

Anders

mrerick · 06-07-2014, 06:32 PM

Hello Anders, and welcome to the forum.

The suffix letter on your Luger looks like the letter "q". See the key on our site at:

http://lugerforum.com/lugermarkings/suffix.html

The full serial number would be "1379q" (S/n corrected per pictures below...)

This Luger looks to be in a very high condition. It was made by DWM in Berlin. It looks like it's marked in the Commercial manner.

Is it in 9mm Luger or .30 Luger Caliber?

Are there any proof markings on it?

If it's a post WW-I commercial Luger, and falls within the Alphabet Commercial time-frame, the "o" suffix would occur in about 1924-1925 (based upon the ones we have here in the USA from that period).

anta71 · 06-08-2014, 04:29 PM

First of all, thanks so much mrerick for taking time to help a beginner. I really appreciate it.

Some further details, clarifications and questions from my side:

The images I first posted were compressed during the posting process, so the markings were not that clear. Enclosed two more pictures of the markings, which are hopefully more clear. Curiously, I just noticed the letter looks different on the barrel (where it looks like "q" I think), and on the frame (where it looks like an "a"). My inexpert opinion is that the letter is supposed to be "q". Do you agree? What year would that imply?

As you can also see the proof is an N with a crown. I believe that is called "Nitro".

The caliber is 7.65 mm.

Yes, as far as I can judge, it is in good condition. This makes sense if it is from the 1920s, since it would not have seen military action in that case. (My grandfather was a military attache in the 1920's and worked for the Red Cross after that.)

Thanks again for your help! Any further input would be much appreciated!

Anders

mrerick · 06-08-2014, 07:31 PM

Hi Anders,

After seeing the barrel markings, I agree with you. The suffix is "q" making the serial "1379q". It looks like the lower tail of the "q" on the die didn't get completely stamped into the frame. The C/N nitro proof confirms that it is a commercial pistol, informs us that it's likely a DWM Alphabet Commercial and pushes the date back. Probably 1926-1927. The halos visible around the serial number on the barrel confirm it's original finish.

Is it possible that your bought this as he left Germany? That could also help account for it's excellent condition...

Marc

John Sabato · 06-09-2014, 11:19 AM

Very Nice!

antonio_liviero · 06-09-2014, 03:00 PM

Hallo,
my Luger has serial # 3139q and, as you see from the pictures, it happens sometimes that the "leg" of the "q" is not printed well on the front of the receiver, I suppose due to the fact of the curved surface of the receiver itself.
Anyway, my Luger is also stamped SA near the C/N, because it was issued to the Finnish Army.
Compliments for the conditions of your gun, it is much better than mine.

PS
To implement the discussion here, I want to say that I like to shoot my Luger sometimes, about 100 rounds per year go through it.

Ciao
Antonio

anta71 · 06-10-2014, 04:15 PM

Thanks again to Marc for helping me to home in on the production year. This was really helpful.

Awesome post by Antonio as well. It was very interesting to see the pictures. I am curious as to why my Grandfather's Luger does not have the SA marking, as I am pretty sure it must have been issued to him by the Finnish Army, which he left in 1930 (to work for the Red Cross until 1956). But I guess I'll never learn all the details :-)

Anyway, thanks so much to the both of you. I am really impressed with activity level and knowledge displayed on LugerForum!

Anders

Edward Tinker · 06-10-2014, 04:36 PM

The finns liked 7.65mm early if I remember right, but this would not surprise me if he bought it new or a department bought them new in the 1920's and he was issued it. Being a commercial, you find them in 7.65 or 9mm, but I think of many commercials as being 7.65mm.

06-07-2014, 05:12 PM	#1
anta71 New User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 3 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Help with Luger from Finland Hi I am trying to find out more about a Luger that belonged to my Grandfather, who served in the Finnish army. He started his military training in Germany in 1915 (in the socalled "Jägerbataillon"). Later he took part in the Finnish Civil War and served in the army until the late 1920s. Hence the Luger could be from any time from 1915 to 1927 or thereabouts. I have tried to understand the markings on the Luger, and match them with the information I have found on this excellent site and others. Unfortunately I have not been able to determine what year the Luger is from. Can anyone help me, based on the enclosed pictures? (Let me know if other pictures are required to form an opinion.) Thanks in advance! Anders Attached Thumbnails

06-07-2014, 06:32 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hello Anders, and welcome to the forum. The suffix letter on your Luger looks like the letter "q". See the key on our site at: http://lugerforum.com/lugermarkings/suffix.html The full serial number would be "1379q" (S/n corrected per pictures below...) This Luger looks to be in a very high condition. It was made by DWM in Berlin. It looks like it's marked in the Commercial manner. Is it in 9mm Luger or .30 Luger Caliber? Are there any proof markings on it? If it's a post WW-I commercial Luger, and falls within the Alphabet Commercial time-frame, the "o" suffix would occur in about 1924-1925 (based upon the ones we have here in the USA from that period). __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-08-2014, 04:29 PM	#3
anta71 New User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 3 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	First of all, thanks so much mrerick for taking time to help a beginner. I really appreciate it. Some further details, clarifications and questions from my side: The images I first posted were compressed during the posting process, so the markings were not that clear. Enclosed two more pictures of the markings, which are hopefully more clear. Curiously, I just noticed the letter looks different on the barrel (where it looks like "q" I think), and on the frame (where it looks like an "a"). My inexpert opinion is that the letter is supposed to be "q". Do you agree? What year would that imply? As you can also see the proof is an N with a crown. I believe that is called "Nitro". The caliber is 7.65 mm. Yes, as far as I can judge, it is in good condition. This makes sense if it is from the 1920s, since it would not have seen military action in that case. (My grandfather was a military attache in the 1920's and worked for the Red Cross after that.) Thanks again for your help! Any further input would be much appreciated! Anders Attached Thumbnails

06-08-2014, 07:31 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	Hi Anders, After seeing the barrel markings, I agree with you. The suffix is "q" making the serial "1379q". It looks like the lower tail of the "q" on the die didn't get completely stamped into the frame. The C/N nitro proof confirms that it is a commercial pistol, informs us that it's likely a DWM Alphabet Commercial and pushes the date back. Probably 1926-1927. The halos visible around the serial number on the barrel confirm it's original finish. Is it possible that your bought this as he left Germany? That could also help account for it's excellent condition... Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

06-09-2014, 11:19 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Very Nice! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-09-2014, 03:00 PM	#6
antonio_liviero User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Italy Posts: 43 Thanks: 8 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	Hallo, my Luger has serial # 3139q and, as you see from the pictures, it happens sometimes that the "leg" of the "q" is not printed well on the front of the receiver, I suppose due to the fact of the curved surface of the receiver itself. Anyway, my Luger is also stamped SA near the C/N, because it was issued to the Finnish Army. Compliments for the conditions of your gun, it is much better than mine. PS To implement the discussion here, I want to say that I like to shoot my Luger sometimes, about 100 rounds per year go through it. Ciao Antonio Attached Thumbnails

06-10-2014, 04:15 PM	#7
anta71 New User Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 3 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks again to Marc for helping me to home in on the production year. This was really helpful. Awesome post by Antonio as well. It was very interesting to see the pictures. I am curious as to why my Grandfather's Luger does not have the SA marking, as I am pretty sure it must have been issued to him by the Finnish Army, which he left in 1930 (to work for the Red Cross until 1956). But I guess I'll never learn all the details :-) Anyway, thanks so much to the both of you. I am really impressed with activity level and knowledge displayed on LugerForum! Anders

06-10-2014, 04:36 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	The finns liked 7.65mm early if I remember right, but this would not surprise me if he bought it new or a department bought them new in the 1920's and he was issued it. Being a commercial, you find them in 7.65 or 9mm, but I think of many commercials as being 7.65mm. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV